Difference between revisions of "LegCon/ Log 2"

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LegCon
Hosted by: Scott, Zorg
Date: 21st May 2010
With: N/A
OC Reps: Food, Risque, SlickVic and Bcfcespley
BoD Reps: Darp, Korin, Angel and KevinMP
TC Reps: Bernard721, Pascal, 007Ben, and Spanky
DF Reps: Tibos, Jonkers, Rotten and Zerocomman
Elder Reps: Ross, Tibos, Food and Darp

Start:2010-05-21 17:00:15
2010-05-21 17:00:15 Zorg: Ok chat is going moderated 2010-05-21 17:00:17 Scott: :P 2010-05-21 17:00:17 turdus: long left to hommie bullspit 2010-05-21 17:00:19 Seraphim: noooo 2010-05-21 17:00:22 Seraphim: not moderation 2010-05-21 17:00:22 Altiar: noooo 2010-05-21 17:00:25 Bernard721: Muteeeeedd. :D 2010-05-21 17:00:26 Scott: Right 2010-05-21 17:00:30 Zorg: Ok who isn't a rep who needs to be? 2010-05-21 17:00:35 Food: Slickvic. 2010-05-21 17:00:36 bcfcespley: me 2010-05-21 17:00:37 Bernard721: 007Ben for TC. 2010-05-21 17:00:39 Pascal: oo7ben 2010-05-21 17:00:43 KevinMp: bcf u r 2010-05-21 17:00:45 KevinMp: ur green 2010-05-21 17:00:46 bcfcespley: oh lol 2010-05-21 17:00:50 bcfcespley: it told me i couldnt speak 2010-05-21 17:00:50 Zorg: 007ben and slickvic, anyone else? 2010-05-21 17:01:07 Korin: hmm 2010-05-21 17:01:25 Zorg: slickvic and 007ben relogin to chat please 2010-05-21 17:01:45 KevinMp: thar ya go ;) 2010-05-21 17:01:57 Zorg: ok everyone got all their reps? 2010-05-21 17:02:02 Pascal: yup 2010-05-21 17:02:03 Rotten: Yes sir 2010-05-21 17:02:05 Scott: hmm 2010-05-21 17:02:07 Ross: ya 2010-05-21 17:02:09 Risque: Yes 2010-05-21 17:02:11 KevinMp: angel is afk :/ 2010-05-21 17:02:12 Bernard721: TC, drop me a PM if you have any point, and I'll try and add it to the conversation 2010-05-21 17:02:14 Scott: Right 2010-05-21 17:02:21 Tibos: same here, DF :P 2010-05-21 17:02:25 Scott: Can reps like.. be quiet for a few seconds 2010-05-21 17:02:26 Zorg: Ok set your chat to your gang color, if you're an elder use your gang color, if you're a rogue use white 2010-05-21 17:02:29 KevinMp: we have 2 backups. one is offline, and 1 isnt responding 2010-05-21 17:02:38 Scott: Zorg Rogue rep is Pie :P 2010-05-21 17:02:46 Zorg: ....? 2010-05-21 17:02:48 bcfcespley: im colourblind XD 2010-05-21 17:02:50 Zorg: Pie is a staff rep -_- 2010-05-21 17:02:55 Ross: Lol 2010-05-21 17:03:00 Angel: Leave me alone kevin -_- 2010-05-21 17:03:01 Bernard721: Organizational fail 2010-05-21 17:03:02 Tibos: we fail at rogue reps then 2010-05-21 17:03:03 Scott: He's also.. the rogue rep :D 2010-05-21 17:03:13 Zorg: whatever 2010-05-21 17:03:20 KevinMp: nvm were all good :d 2010-05-21 17:03:27 Scott: Right 2010-05-21 17:03:35 Scott: Reps be quiet for a few mins :P 2010-05-21 17:03:38 Bernard721: shoot dropped some bud in my keyboard 2010-05-21 17:03:42 KevinMp: WHAT!?!?! 2010-05-21 17:03:45 Zorg: Nobody cares. 2010-05-21 17:03:45 KevinMp: lol allright 2010-05-21 17:03:46 Scott: by that i mean shut up 2010-05-21 17:03:50 Ross: Lmao 2010-05-21 17:03:57 bcfcespley: can we just start 2010-05-21 17:04:00 Zorg: Ok will be removing rep status from those who speak... 2010-05-21 17:04:10 Zorg: If that's not clear enough by the instructions given twice already. 2010-05-21 17:04:31 Scott: Right, Welcome to the second LegCon. This second meeting will be hosted by Lucas, myself and Zorg. 2010-05-21 17:04:50 Scott: The room is set to moderated so if you need to make a point PM your chosen gang reps by double clciking their names. 2010-05-21 17:05:04 Scott: Can all gang reps please use your gang colours to avoid confusion 2010-05-21 17:05:26 Scott: All input will be noted down and tomorrow the logs/review of the meeting will be posted. 2010-05-21 17:05:32 Scott: Take it away Zorg :P 2010-05-21 17:05:51 Zorg: Ok this will be a structured chat, not a free-for-all... so if it isn't constructive I dont want to hear it. 2010-05-21 17:06:15 Zorg: How many elder reps do we have here? 2010-05-21 17:06:20 Food: All 4. 2010-05-21 17:06:23 Ross: 4 2010-05-21 17:06:29 Zorg: hmm ok 2010-05-21 17:06:30 KevinMp: BoD is... checking. hold on 2010-05-21 17:06:38 Zorg: Well first the Elders and their forum. 2010-05-21 17:06:41 KevinMp: we have 4. all good :D 2010-05-21 17:07:08 Zorg: The initial idea behind this was a place I could get feedback from people without getting opinions of new players or players of lesser importance.... if that's not too offensive :D 2010-05-21 17:07:15 Zorg: However it didn't get used much. 2010-05-21 17:07:19 Zorg: So I shut it down. 2010-05-21 17:07:32 Zorg: Then Deeg convinced me to re-open it with him running it. 2010-05-21 17:07:41 Zorg: Then Deeg left... he is kind of back now but still. 2010-05-21 17:07:50 Zorg: So it got abandoned for a while, then Scott was put in charge of it. 2010-05-21 17:07:59 Zorg: It now seems to just be there... with no real purpose. 2010-05-21 17:08:30 Zorg: So I want to know what people think about it, whether it should remain or be removed again. 2010-05-21 17:08:43 darp: At one point, the forum was put forth as a way to discuss suggestions and game updates and the like. 2010-05-21 17:08:46 KevinMp: we should keep it up :O 2010-05-21 17:08:57 bcfcespley: We should keep it, if you actually have some input zorg 2010-05-21 17:09:04 darp: If the estions forum is player driven, I think COE would do better with direct input from you, Zorg. 2010-05-21 17:09:12 jonkers: To me it sounds like the hall of gods but for older players 2010-05-21 17:09:18 Scott: Of course if kept open the members will be re-worked so every member has recently logged in so we dont have our current stauts of inactive elders. 2010-05-21 17:09:19 darp: So that we aren't discussing things that you don't like or won't want implemented. 2010-05-21 17:09:21 Ross: First of all, I'd like to thank Scott and the staff, for arranging this semester 2010-05-21 17:09:23 Zorg: It was removed when the council forum was added with the gang system, as that was supposed to take its place. 2010-05-21 17:09:34 Risque: And what about the Senate forum? 2010-05-21 17:09:40 Bernard721: Well just like the Avatar and Senate, its apparently not being used.. but the occasional thread and discussion is worth it 2010-05-21 17:09:42 KevinMp: imo, all new updates should go through it 2010-05-21 17:09:47 Pie: The senate is junk. 2010-05-21 17:09:52 Risque: Then why have it? 2010-05-21 17:09:55 Ross: the main problem is activity.....i said that in the forum itself 2010-05-21 17:09:57 KevinMp: it lets veteran players discuss it, and ensure itll go right and such 2010-05-21 17:10:00 darp: Back to coe. 2010-05-21 17:10:00 Risque: Or combine Senate and COE 2010-05-21 17:10:03 Tibos: from my experience, the CoE is a bit more active (lol!) and mature about problems than the Senate 2010-05-21 17:10:06 Zorg: Yes the senate, hall of gods, elder forums are all similair sort of forums and none of them serve a purpose at present. 2010-05-21 17:10:12 Ross: we have way too make players on the elders list who have long lost interest 2010-05-21 17:10:17 Ross: thats the problem, imo 2010-05-21 17:10:19 bcfcespley: elders is as useful as suggestions at this point in time, without the person who can actually make things happening having no input, whats the point in doing anything in them? {XD} 2010-05-21 17:10:42 Angel: Maybe the COE could be used as a filter forum for the public forums, since you ay you want to remove the 'leser importance' Elders could ensure that the critical point are addressed and heard, rather than suggestions being shut down because they are either 2010-05-21 17:10:53 Angel: improperly seen or jut spammed away 2010-05-21 17:11:06 Scott: Well at the current status of the game 2010-05-21 17:11:08 Zorg: so what place would the senate and avatar forums have? 2010-05-21 17:11:18 Scott: things cant really be added ebcause of the rebuild 2010-05-21 17:11:19 Food: It's simple, It requires Zorg's involvement to work..if not, it seems things are being said to deaf ears, also..we could use some active people, as mention. 2010-05-21 17:11:20 Ross: no, we just need to axe the players who barely log in more and get some of the more active players in 2010-05-21 17:11:24 Pie: I don't see why we have the senate 2010-05-21 17:11:29 darp: Senate should remain, as needed. Avatar forum... meh. 2010-05-21 17:11:34 Risque: Ross makes a good point 2010-05-21 17:11:36 Ross: Primie, Jack, Doddsyboi, Pink 2010-05-21 17:11:38 Ross: etc etc 2010-05-21 17:11:43 Bernard721: Maybe if a suggestion in the Suggestion forum sounds decent, it could be moved into another forum for old player discussion 2010-05-21 17:11:50 Tibos: Avatar forum = reward for avatars ; Senate = discussions that involve gangs 2010-05-21 17:12:08 bcfcespley: a reward? 2010-05-21 17:12:09 SlickVic: I don't see a lot of use for the Avatar forum 2010-05-21 17:12:10 bcfcespley: o.O 2010-05-21 17:12:14 Scott: So you guys would prefer a filter process ? 2010-05-21 17:12:21 Ross: urgh 2010-05-21 17:12:22 Ross: no 2010-05-21 17:12:24 Ross: in short 2010-05-21 17:12:26 Zorg: Like I said the Elder process became tiresome.... keeping track of a community and selecting those who are active to be Elders... removing inactive Elders. The idea of the Senate was the councils are player elected, it took away the need for staff... 2010-05-21 17:12:31 KevinMp: same. avatar forum is like.. for gloating 2010-05-21 17:12:31 Zorg: to add / remove Elders all the time. 2010-05-21 17:12:34 Angel: Senate forums are gang related, they should be used for global gang discussions... (if any), The the Avatar forum is for avatars, elling av equipment/ welcoming new avatars, it already has it's purpose, not many pay attention to it, so that's why it seems 2010-05-21 17:12:38 Angel: to be worthless 2010-05-21 17:12:52 Ross: Zorg, its not that difficult to maintain elders at the moment 2010-05-21 17:12:56 Ross: the list hasnt be revised in ages 2010-05-21 17:12:58 Zorg: Yes, sadly the gangs rarely have the need to talk with all the other gangs. 2010-05-21 17:13:07 Ross: been* 2010-05-21 17:13:09 zerocomman: avatar forum is a place where people female-dog about tyran drops. it's worthless 2010-05-21 17:13:14 KevinMp: we just need new ones. activeness is a requirement 2010-05-21 17:13:22 Bernard721: I just dont see why this is the starting topic point... what is is, taking up 5mb on the server space? Leave it be, and modify it later 2010-05-21 17:13:28 Scott: hmm 2010-05-21 17:13:46 Zorg: So if we keep it and I get involved, how do we decide who gets to be an Elder and who does not? 2010-05-21 17:13:50 darp: I think Zorg steering of COE or at least Zorg through Scott would be the most important starting point. 2010-05-21 17:13:55 bcfcespley: everyone zorg 2010-05-21 17:13:58 Ross: election from within? 2010-05-21 17:14:00 Scott: So would you guys like to see the senate removed, avatar forum removed CoE reset and all player revised with a bigger member list? 2010-05-21 17:14:07 darp: More work for Z and Staff, but it would spur some discussion. 2010-05-21 17:14:09 Bernard721: How about using the voting system thats never used.... 2010-05-21 17:14:16 Tibos: election from within is the logical idea 2010-05-21 17:14:18 Food: I say we leave Scott in chargew of members list, but if you keep a eye on what's said there Zorg, that would work. 2010-05-21 17:14:19 Angel: so that isn't the issue here, the COE should use the filter method because it shows that the people who are selected are done so for a reason, they have more thought behind there points than new players as you said, and can develop less brain punching idea 2010-05-21 17:14:22 Pascal: let people apply and scan their history within the game? 2010-05-21 17:14:23 Angel: s so to speak :) 2010-05-21 17:14:23 Ross: if you use internal election, it gives the group another purpose? 2010-05-21 17:14:27 Zorg: The voting system is being removed soon. :/ 2010-05-21 17:14:45 bcfcespley: what and biased options is coming in instead? 2010-05-21 17:14:55 Scott: Zorg, would it be a stupid idea to have like a gang voting system ? 2010-05-21 17:15:00 KevinMp: people who are invited to CoE should be players with little staff issues, a long period of play, and activeness 2010-05-21 17:15:06 Pie: why should the elders get to elect someone the staff don't care to listen to? 2010-05-21 17:15:11 Rotten: dont we have a gang voting system? 2010-05-21 17:15:16 Scott: like the kick player vote a player needs a certain number of yess's to get access ? 2010-05-21 17:15:21 jonkers: Would different gangs agree on a vote? 2010-05-21 17:15:27 Zorg: I'm not adding voting systems on anything, this isn't a democracy... we can discuss things giving reasons not mindless pick from multiple choice questions. 2010-05-21 17:15:27 Food: Voting is based too muchj on popularity, I strongly believe that a member of Staff should be incharge of the members. 2010-05-21 17:15:38 KevinMp: should we have a certain amount of people from each gang in the Chambers? 2010-05-21 17:15:42 KevinMp: 4 per? 2010-05-21 17:15:46 Ross: it wouldnt be mindless pick from the elders... 2010-05-21 17:15:54 darp: PiCOE should be removed from gang considerations as much as possible. 2010-05-21 17:15:56 Pie: Kevin.. That would be the senate again.. 2010-05-21 17:16:01 Tibos: CoE is strongly gang independent 2010-05-21 17:16:16 KevinMp: i mean.. just choosing the people that go in. 2010-05-21 17:16:20 darp: I've seen very little gangbias in the COE. 2010-05-21 17:16:23 KevinMp: So that way, every gang has a voice 2010-05-21 17:16:38 Pie: Again, that sounds very similat to the senate.. 2010-05-21 17:16:39 Angel: Elders are decided from ranging factors, first would be account age, then game contributions, gang contribution, staff contribtions such a good ethics between players and staff, they should be selected by staff (Zorg and scott) with input from the current 2010-05-21 17:16:39 Zorg: Yes, Elders would be for discussing game changes... not changes that could effect some gangs differently to others. 2010-05-21 17:16:44 Pie: similar* 2010-05-21 17:16:50 bcfcespley: but what is every coe member decides to join the same gang 2010-05-21 17:16:52 Tibos: no, gang has nothing to do with CoE, people there are mature enough to think of the game and not of the gang they are in 2010-05-21 17:16:56 Angel: elders but the decision remains staff for a non-biased outlook 2010-05-21 17:17:07 Zorg: Clearly the current Elders list is out-dated.... Scott has been in charge of it for months, so clearly that's not working. 2010-05-21 17:17:16 bcfcespley: lol yeah scott 2010-05-21 17:17:18 bcfcespley: do your job :p 2010-05-21 17:17:23 Pie: seconded. 2010-05-21 17:17:24 Pie: xD 2010-05-21 17:17:25 KevinMp: So how are we gonna go about deciding new members? 2010-05-21 17:17:26 Ross: Lol 2010-05-21 17:17:31 Risque: Per Bigmick - Keep the active members already in there and add or remove the rest. 2010-05-21 17:17:33 KevinMp: staff pick? 2010-05-21 17:17:33 Scott: -_- 2010-05-21 17:17:37 Food: Was scott under the direction to fire inactive people? 2010-05-21 17:17:41 Scott: well if i went ahead and removed inactives 2010-05-21 17:17:52 Scott: it would be helpful if current elders did their joba nd suggested replacements 2010-05-21 17:18:01 Bernard721: What about a seperate staff position for the head of CoE 2010-05-21 17:18:01 Ross: ... 2010-05-21 17:18:05 Pie: why does there have to be replacements? 2010-05-21 17:18:19 Ross: theres a sticky on membership thats got about 59 votes 2010-05-21 17:18:21 darp: We could do better suggesting new members, and there is no need to remove inactives. 2010-05-21 17:18:22 Ross: posts* 2010-05-21 17:18:22 Zorg: That would be a very boring job. 2010-05-21 17:18:32 Pie: surely a small, active group is better than a larger, inactive one 2010-05-21 17:18:33 Scott: Some old posts, witht he players inactive 2010-05-21 17:18:39 KevinMp: Pie yes 2010-05-21 17:18:46 bcfcespley: exactly pie 2010-05-21 17:18:48 Scott: Right 2010-05-21 17:18:53 Ross: there has to be replacements because theres people on the list who have zero input on this game anymore 2010-05-21 17:18:57 darp: I don't see the difference. 2010-05-21 17:18:59 Angel: COE has been seen as eligible to be removed, making a staff position is not functional just further proves the point it has no place. 2010-05-21 17:19:01 Ross: they barely find the interest to log in regulary 2010-05-21 17:19:06 Pie: but why do they have to be replaced? 2010-05-21 17:19:09 Pie: why not just remove them? 2010-05-21 17:19:18 Ross: because then you'll have about 8 elders 2010-05-21 17:19:27 Ross: i'd be cool with that 2010-05-21 17:19:32 Pie: and select Elders when somebody proves good enough.. :D 2010-05-21 17:19:32 Ross: but its not my decision 2010-05-21 17:19:34 Ross: so... 2010-05-21 17:19:38 Scott: Right 2010-05-21 17:19:38 Ross: yes 2010-05-21 17:19:40 Pie: that's what we're here to discuss.. 2010-05-21 17:19:40 Ross: that could work 2010-05-21 17:19:48 zerocomman: how many members does staff want in elders 2010-05-21 17:19:49 Scott: so should elder list be reset yes or no -_- 2010-05-21 17:19:55 KevinMp: yes 2010-05-21 17:20:00 Risque: You need to decide how many elders, as well 2010-05-21 17:20:01 Pie: reset? no 2010-05-21 17:20:03 KevinMp: it needs to be refreshed 2010-05-21 17:20:04 Bernard721: Well obviously Elders now are going to say no 2010-05-21 17:20:06 Pie: pruned, yes 2010-05-21 17:20:07 Tibos: trimmed and afterwards expanded 2010-05-21 17:20:09 Ross: reset? 2010-05-21 17:20:10 Angel: Maybe Selecting Elders could be the same as staff positions, it could be explained and applications sent to scott, which then gets discussed in the forum by the Elders currently, and a decision is reached? 2010-05-21 17:20:11 KevinMp: some of them can stay 2010-05-21 17:20:12 Ross: cut down 2010-05-21 17:20:12 Zorg: There was never a limit. 2010-05-21 17:20:13 Ross: :P 2010-05-21 17:20:27 Zorg: There were like 20 elders before it shutdown and the gang system went live, they became the starting gang councils. 2010-05-21 17:20:28 Tibos: Angel's idea souns nice 2010-05-21 17:20:31 Pascal: their should be a clear idea te be "good" enough though 2010-05-21 17:20:40 Risque: Bigmick - The original amount of elders was 16. Why change that.? 2010-05-21 17:20:41 Ross: that idea sucks 2010-05-21 17:20:49 Ross: cue levels 5 saying "KAN I B ELDAR" 2010-05-21 17:20:59 Scott: like your application 2010-05-21 17:21:01 Zorg: So you want it to remain an invite only elitist forum? 2010-05-21 17:21:02 Scott: hehe :P 2010-05-21 17:21:08 Ross: pretty much 2010-05-21 17:21:10 KevinMp: we should maybe put a year limit on who we accept? 2010-05-21 17:21:10 bcfcespley: yeah 2010-05-21 17:21:12 Tibos: yes 2010-05-21 17:21:15 jonkers: yes 2010-05-21 17:21:16 Pie: if it's not invite only, you may as well close it.. 2010-05-21 17:21:16 Ross: that was the draw of the CoE to being wiht 2010-05-21 17:21:17 Food: Yes. 2010-05-21 17:21:17 Pascal: yeah 2010-05-21 17:21:18 Zorg: Ok 2010-05-21 17:21:21 Angel: obviously scott knows the difference between an aplicable elder and a level 5 2010-05-21 17:21:21 KevinMp: for example, u need to have been playing for at least 2 years or something 2010-05-21 17:21:28 Zorg: Do you want to allow applications or literally be like... wait until you get invited? 2010-05-21 17:21:36 Ross: the latter 2010-05-21 17:21:38 Pie: wait until you get contacted, i think 2010-05-21 17:21:40 Zorg: Obviously we would ignore low level newbie applications. 2010-05-21 17:21:41 KevinMp: yeah 2010-05-21 17:21:43 jonkers: latter 2010-05-21 17:21:43 Angel: You don't need to be a genius, Scott could easily filter out the 'lesser importance' :P 2010-05-21 17:21:47 Pie: with discussion inside the froum 2010-05-21 17:21:48 Pie: forum* 2010-05-21 17:22:09 Pascal: applications sound nice, maybe make a system that checks if you are eligeble for it? 2010-05-21 17:22:10 SlickVic: how were elders chosen initially? 2010-05-21 17:22:15 zerocomman: i agree with waiting for invites 2010-05-21 17:22:16 darp: Invite is fine, but I think membership is the lesser issue... what about the forum's function? 2010-05-21 17:22:17 Zorg: Ok that's decided, the Elder forum will be re-launched, the member list updated and we'll form a new group of Elders through which all updates will be explained and discussed. 2010-05-21 17:22:21 Ross: Zorg hand picked them 2010-05-21 17:22:23 Tibos: handpicked by zorg, SlickVic 2010-05-21 17:22:24 darp: ok, fine. 2010-05-21 17:22:24 Ross: i think...? 2010-05-21 17:22:29 007Ben: an application would be good if it had a required rank to enter 2010-05-21 17:22:41 KevinMp: we cant base it on gang rank, can we? 2010-05-21 17:22:44 Zorg: They were hand picked by me, back when I was more community involved. 2010-05-21 17:22:45 zerocomman: haha no 2010-05-21 17:22:47 KevinMp: non-biased 2010-05-21 17:22:50 darp: COE removed from gang. 2010-05-21 17:22:55 Zorg: Ok the gang senate, should that just be removed? 2010-05-21 17:22:55 Food: Zorg picked them out of Gang's leadership when he relauched I think :O 2010-05-21 17:23:00 Food: Yes Zorg. 2010-05-21 17:23:02 Scott: Yes. 2010-05-21 17:23:03 Pie: yes 2010-05-21 17:23:08 Angel: agreed 2010-05-21 17:23:09 darp: Keep Senate. 2010-05-21 17:23:09 Zorg: and the avatar forum? 2010-05-21 17:23:10 Scott: At the moment i just see spam all the time 2010-05-21 17:23:11 Tibos: No... it does no harm 2010-05-21 17:23:14 darp: What's the harm? 2010-05-21 17:23:15 Ross: remove it 2010-05-21 17:23:16 zerocomman: kill avatar forum 2010-05-21 17:23:18 Scott: well darp 2010-05-21 17:23:18 Ross: useless forum 2010-05-21 17:23:22 Zorg: It's never had a constructive post in it though. :/ 2010-05-21 17:23:23 Scott: im not being evil but 2010-05-21 17:23:23 007Ben: not base it on the rank, just need to be a certain rank to apply for it, so no noobs would apply 2010-05-21 17:23:24 darp: Oh, god. Tibos and I of one mind. 2010-05-21 17:23:30 Bernard721: Why is there a need to scrap them? 2010-05-21 17:23:32 Pie: Uh 2010-05-21 17:23:33 Scott: the main threads are just good luck int he next wf 2010-05-21 17:23:34 Food: There's no point in having 2 threads meant for the same thing./ 2010-05-21 17:23:36 Bernard721: If theres one tthread a year, so be it 2010-05-21 17:23:37 Ross: we're at a stage now where we have more avatars than lower levels....whats the point? 2010-05-21 17:23:38 Pie: The senate currently has no active topics 2010-05-21 17:23:41 Pie: it's a waste 2010-05-21 17:23:43 Scott: so in total we have a forum that gets a good luck thread every 3 months 2010-05-21 17:23:43 Pascal: remove senate and keep avatar 2010-05-21 17:24:02 Pascal: avatar is getting used still, well not much but more than senate :P 2010-05-21 17:24:09 Scott: I'd say remove senate 2010-05-21 17:24:11 Ross: the avatar one is more useles 2010-05-21 17:24:15 Zorg: Ok I've been trying to make my presence in the suggestions forum a bit more known by actually posting my thoughts recently, I'll get more involved in the Elder forum and shutdown the Senate / Avatar forums. 2010-05-21 17:24:15 jonkers: A DF member has suggested that every 3 months elders have to re apply to be an elder. 2010-05-21 17:24:16 bcfcespley: remove suggestions 2010-05-21 17:24:23 darp: At least on paper, there's no use for having a forum for gang leaderships to meet? Yes, it is not being used, but removing is the better idea? :/ 2010-05-21 17:24:26 Tibos: avatar forum is posted in daily, but mainly spam 2010-05-21 17:24:30 Scott: that way the current rank 16's have a better job at gang relations 2010-05-21 17:24:34 Zorg: Suggestions serves a purpose :/ 2010-05-21 17:24:42 bcfcespley: what purpose lol? 2010-05-21 17:24:46 bcfcespley: dust collecting 2010-05-21 17:24:54 darp: Leave Suggestions alone. 2010-05-21 17:24:55 KevinMp: some of the ideas were taken 2010-05-21 17:24:56 zerocomman: no need for an avatar spam forum 2010-05-21 17:25:06 [Disconnect] Extreme 2010-05-21 17:25:07 Angel: remove senate, why? because it is evident when being linked to communicate with other gangs, we don't want anything to do with it, if we wanted to dicusss any isues, that's what the rank 16's are for... 2010-05-21 17:25:14 Food: Suggestions is the same as CoE, It requires Zorg to really work..since he says yes or no to things. 2010-05-21 17:25:17 Rotten: Avatar Forum is one of our most useless forums, we all use it to complain about not getting tyran drops. 2010-05-21 17:25:22 darp: I really don't want Senate removed. 2010-05-21 17:25:23 Bernard721: Rank 16s are hardly used though... 2010-05-21 17:25:42 bcfcespley: why dont zorg add his rating system in his updates to the suggestions forum threads? 2010-05-21 17:25:42 Bernard721: People go straight to the people they're friendly with in a PM 2010-05-21 17:25:44 Pie: darp.. all of its threads are archived 2010-05-21 17:25:45 Scott: Well with senate beign removed rank 16's will have more to do 2010-05-21 17:25:49 Pie: nothing constructive gets posted there 2010-05-21 17:25:52 Risque: Senate hasn't had a post since April 5th so what's the point? 2010-05-21 17:25:52 Zorg: why though darp? 2010-05-21 17:26:06 Zorg: your personal dislike of change is not reason to keep something that has no purpose 2010-05-21 17:26:08 darp: Whether used or not, the avenue of communication is open. 2010-05-21 17:26:11 Ross: none of the gangs like each other....whats the point in trying to maintaina forum where they can co-exist? 2010-05-21 17:26:12 Ross: {XD} 2010-05-21 17:26:14 Scott: If i moved good suggestions to senate it will just turn into arguements 2010-05-21 17:26:14 Zorg: The whole point of the senate was to replace the elder forum and it never did 2010-05-21 17:26:24 Pie: The rank 16's job is to communicate.. 2010-05-21 17:26:29 Zorg: an avenue that is never used in the years it has been open 2010-05-21 17:26:30 Pie: Use them 2010-05-21 17:26:44 Angel: the avenue of communication is within the rank 16', they are suppose to 'communicate'. Not everyone in leadership. 2010-05-21 17:26:56 jonkers: An idea from a DF member. In the senate forum a gang should be able to open a thread that only a selected gang could read. So If for example OC only want to talk to BOD that can. 2010-05-21 17:27:00 Bernard721: I have a feeling this LegCon is going to be a long one... I mean 30 minutes on forum use.... 2010-05-21 17:27:02 darp: Sometimes I want to yell at 15 people directly, not through the r16s. 2010-05-21 17:27:08 Angel: The rank 16 is suppose to bring any discussion to the attention of council in the council forum, not the senate 2010-05-21 17:27:08 Pie: jonkers 2010-05-21 17:27:17 Zorg: Gang to gang forums aren't happening. 2010-05-21 17:27:17 Scott: jonkers that would be... stupid 2010-05-21 17:27:18 Angel: thus creating senate forum useless :P 2010-05-21 17:27:20 Pie: in response to that, again, that is why there are Rank 16 2010-05-21 17:27:28 Zorg: Ratings could be added to Suggestions but that would be a big job. 2010-05-21 17:27:29 Pie: And the post office.. 2010-05-21 17:27:36 Scott: plus 2010-05-21 17:27:38 bcfcespley: just copy and paste the code lol {XD} 2010-05-21 17:27:45 Scott: the problem with ratings is its jsut thumbs up or down 2010-05-21 17:27:50 jonkers: Its not my idea I am just passing on idea's 2010-05-21 17:27:52 Scott: we need to know WHY its good or bad 2010-05-21 17:27:56 Pie: i know 2010-05-21 17:27:56 Zorg: Like you copy and paste your graphics? :o 2010-05-21 17:27:58 Zorg: Zing! 2010-05-21 17:28:00 Pie: I was just responding to it 2010-05-21 17:28:03 bcfcespley: yeah 2010-05-21 17:28:08 bcfcespley: cus that made sense {XD} 2010-05-21 17:28:12 Scott: its no use just saying thumbs down to a good suggestion 2010-05-21 17:28:16 Zorg: :D 2010-05-21 17:28:19 Scott: we need to know why you think its crap 2010-05-21 17:28:19 bcfcespley: :P 2010-05-21 17:28:20 Zorg: Ok next topic 2010-05-21 17:28:33 Ross: Ste got bullied then 2010-05-21 17:28:44 bcfcespley: how did i lol 2010-05-21 17:28:47 Zorg: Flame Forum, right now we're deleting stuff that may get us in to... legal trouble, soon the TOS will be re-written to prohibit such discussion. Apart from that the plan is to leave it. 2010-05-21 17:28:54 Zorg: Do you guys like it? hate it? etc 2010-05-21 17:28:55 Ross: wooo 2010-05-21 17:28:58 Ross: Go flame forum 2010-05-21 17:28:59 Bernard721: Love it. 2010-05-21 17:29:02 Tibos: i like it 2010-05-21 17:29:05 Bernard721: I know its childish.. but its great 2010-05-21 17:29:13 Tibos: but i would like an anti-spam rule on it 2010-05-21 17:29:14 KevinMp: its all trash, but its pretty much a spam forum 2010-05-21 17:29:17 darp: It's pretty inane, but meh... the purpose is sound. 2010-05-21 17:29:19 Pie: it doesn't seem o have moved any of the arguments off of Side Chat -.- 2010-05-21 17:29:23 007Ben: personally i like it, but most if the forums are just pointless :P 2010-05-21 17:29:24 Pie: if anything, i've had more tickets 2010-05-21 17:29:26 zerocomman: anti-spam would be much appreciated 2010-05-21 17:29:27 Food: It's not for me, I have little to no interest in it, but of course..for others it serves a purpose. 2010-05-21 17:29:28 Risque: Nothing will do that, Pie 2010-05-21 17:29:29 darp: It seems to be the new non-related forum, though, often. 2010-05-21 17:29:30 KevinMp: but imo, if it gets the game in trouble, kill it 2010-05-21 17:29:32 Zorg: In short the TOS re-write will prohibit pornographic content, illegal content and personal attacks aimed at individuals within the game. 2010-05-21 17:29:36 Rotten: I hate the Flame Forum 2010-05-21 17:29:43 Scott: Right now i get a mail a week asking me to take action on player abuse .. 2010-05-21 17:29:50 Pascal: yeah flame forum should get kept out of sidechat >.> 2010-05-21 17:29:54 Scott: i cant because if someone insults you its a FLAME forum 2010-05-21 17:29:55 Scott: ignore it 2010-05-21 17:29:59 SlickVic: I have no use for it, but I don't have to vist there so its not an issue to me. 2010-05-21 17:30:06 Food: Once ToS is Re-written then I think Flame Forum will be fine. 2010-05-21 17:30:06 Risque: Exactly, Slick 2010-05-21 17:30:10 007Ben: id rather not click on a link that is said to be a video and be shown genetalia 2010-05-21 17:30:13 Zorg: Well personal attacks in the flame forum will be banned by the TOS soon. 2010-05-21 17:30:25 KevinMp: then in that case, flame forums are good 2 go 2010-05-21 17:30:27 zerocomman: half the stuff in flame would just normally be in non-related 2010-05-21 17:30:28 Scott: 0007, that si one of the things that will be banned by Tos 2010-05-21 17:30:29 darp: How is it a Flame forum then? 2010-05-21 17:30:29 Ross: makes sense 2010-05-21 17:30:29 Tibos: doesn't that ... contradict the purpose? 2010-05-21 17:30:32 Bernard721: Well genetalia is considered pornography... so new ToS will limit that 2010-05-21 17:30:38 Ross: -_- 2010-05-21 17:30:43 Angel: It's good, in myopinion because it reveals what some people will do, and helps to decide upon giving them such respect as staff positions, Elder positions etc, if they say something out of line it shows how they can't make points across without being a 2010-05-21 17:30:47 Ross: you guys have tge wrong end of a stick as to what a flame forum is... 2010-05-21 17:30:50 bcfcespley: angel stop with the essays XD 2010-05-21 17:30:53 Angel: complete ass... 2010-05-21 17:31:00 Scott: for the past few weeks i have edited out a few things that violate a few things 2010-05-21 17:31:04 Zorg: ...*shrug* but there is untested liability through internet bullying if you allow your website to be used for personal attacks against others. 2010-05-21 17:31:04 Rotten: Remove the flame forum 2010-05-21 17:31:10 darp: Then pay attention to the summary, there, bcf. 2010-05-21 17:31:14 darp: lol 2010-05-21 17:31:29 darp: Legal considerations trump all. 2010-05-21 17:31:31 Ross: its fine zorg, 2010-05-21 17:31:35 Zorg: And I'd rather not be in the court case that tests the water on that one, I'll leave that to facebook and encyclopedia dramatica... they have more money... and lawyers 2010-05-21 17:31:46 Ross: the flame forum i suggested to you was merely a forum where restrictions on swearing werent in place 2010-05-21 17:31:50 Ross: mainly got every day rants 2010-05-21 17:31:50 darp: personal attacks = racism, and all the isms, but everything else is fine? 2010-05-21 17:31:52 Ross: or touchy subjects 2010-05-21 17:32:00 Scott: Racsim is edited out right now 2010-05-21 17:32:04 Ross: people who started abusing others took it way out of the context it was meant 2010-05-21 17:32:11 Scott: look at searphims thread right now, shes bitching about my edits 2010-05-21 17:32:13 zerocomman: so rename the flame forum so it no longer implies flaming is approved 2010-05-21 17:32:15 Bernard721: Yep. Racist is edited... ::roll:: 2010-05-21 17:32:17 KevinMp: look... the flame forum is gonna get you in hot water :/ 2010-05-21 17:32:25 Zorg: It will be an open forum with no restriction on content (besides legal restrictions), no language rules... for ranting and complaining. lol 2010-05-21 17:32:27 Korin: rename it to swearing forum 2010-05-21 17:32:32 KevinMp: if it causes problems, redo it 2010-05-21 17:32:32 Ross: woo 2010-05-21 17:32:33 Tibos: Open Forum? 2010-05-21 17:32:35 Angel: Right now staff 'watch over' the flame forum, so it is just a way of seeing who is here just to fool around and who is here as a more serious manner, than just 'flaming' :) 2010-05-21 17:32:44 Bernard721: So why is using a racial slur different than using unrestricted langugage use 2010-05-21 17:32:47 Zorg: Right now staff watch over it to delete anything illegal lol 2010-05-21 17:32:51 Korin: its not a flame forum without personal attacks 2010-05-21 17:32:55 darp: So, I can tear someone a new one in Flame Forum still, as long as I'm not being racist or other ists? 2010-05-21 17:32:59 Angel: Exactly Zorg 2010-05-21 17:33:00 Korin: rant forum/unrestricted forum/swear forum 2010-05-21 17:33:02 Scott: because a racial slur is bullying against someones race 2010-05-21 17:33:03 Zorg: Open i.e you can discuss anything... suggestions, legacy stuff, not related stuff.... whatever 2010-05-21 17:33:06 Angel: there is it's purpose right there 2010-05-21 17:33:20 Scott: in the UK legislation it is illegal to use race against someone :/ 2010-05-21 17:33:28 Zorg: No you will not be able to use the flame forum for personal attacks against players of the game. 2010-05-21 17:33:28 007Ben: if people dont want to read racial slurs, they shouldnt be in the flame forum 2010-05-21 17:33:29 Angel: to weed out who wants to act up and who is more civil 2010-05-21 17:33:34 Ross: or everyday subjects that could cause tension or hit a few nerves :P 2010-05-21 17:33:40 Pie: a while ago, i had trouble explaining to somebody that the Flame Forum was not created for players to attack other players 2010-05-21 17:33:46 darp: Then definitely rename it away from Flame forum. 2010-05-21 17:33:54 Bernard721: But using a racial slur, not pointed at a specific person is not a personal attack 2010-05-21 17:33:56 Zorg: Rename it to what? :/ 2010-05-21 17:33:58 Ross: -_- 2010-05-21 17:34:00 Tibos: Open Forum 2010-05-21 17:34:01 Angel: spam forum? 2010-05-21 17:34:02 Scott: Open Forum sounds better 2010-05-21 17:34:03 darp: Open or such. 2010-05-21 17:34:04 Zorg: Chav Forum -_- 2010-05-21 17:34:05 Bernard721: 18+? 2010-05-21 17:34:10 Ross: darp, you have the wrong end of the stick lol 2010-05-21 17:34:10 Scott: Zorg Forum mwhaha 2010-05-21 17:34:13 Zorg: ok all the Americans wouldnt get that joke 2010-05-21 17:34:16 Angel: All it is essentially is spam 2010-05-21 17:34:23 Bernard721: Oh I got the joke 2010-05-21 17:34:25 Scott: Post count doesnt count 2010-05-21 17:34:30 Scott: so spam shouldnt be an issue 2010-05-21 17:34:33 Tibos: actually it's not spam ;) 2010-05-21 17:34:39 Bernard721: 18+ Forum... done dea 2010-05-21 17:34:40 Scott: Flooding on the otherhand 2010-05-21 17:34:42 Bernard721: deal* 2010-05-21 17:34:45 Ross: flaming in the UK means swearing 2010-05-21 17:34:46 Ross: simple as 2010-05-21 17:34:49 Zorg: Spam just makes my nightly db backups take longer. -_- 2010-05-21 17:34:49 KevinMp: remake the spam forum and remove the idea of flame. solvves the problem, and lets people say what they want 2010-05-21 17:35:02 Scott: *floods Zorgs inbox* 2010-05-21 17:35:04 Ross: thats all the intention of the forum was, a place to have no restictions on language 2010-05-21 17:35:10 Zorg: ok so Spam Forum, I'll put in place the rules mentioned above... swearing and such will still be allowed. 2010-05-21 17:35:11 zerocomman: i doubt people want it to be a spam forum either 2010-05-21 17:35:12 Ross: not to actually start inciting hatred on other players 2010-05-21 17:35:14 darp: Flaming every where else in the world means verbally abusing people. 2010-05-21 17:35:20 Bernard721: Not Spam Forum.. 2010-05-21 17:35:21 Bernard721: Its not spam 2010-05-21 17:35:27 Bernard721: Its discussions that are 18+ 2010-05-21 17:35:28 Ross: doesnt have to mean people... 2010-05-21 17:35:30 Scott: ... 2010-05-21 17:35:31 007Ben: adult forum 2010-05-21 17:35:34 Risque: Bigmick - I think having a forum like this puts you on dodgey ground, why take the risk? 2010-05-21 17:35:35 Zorg: Mature Forum? o.O 2010-05-21 17:35:38 Zorg: That sounds like porn... 2010-05-21 17:35:41 Pascal: XD 2010-05-21 17:35:42 darp: Mature forum lol 2010-05-21 17:35:47 Rotten: people can just lie and say there 18+ 2010-05-21 17:35:50 Ross: Non-Restricted? 2010-05-21 17:35:51 KevinMp: mature forum would lead to porn one way or another 2010-05-21 17:35:52 Tibos: Unrestricted Forum if you don't like Open 2010-05-21 17:35:52 Rotten: that solves nothing 2010-05-21 17:35:53 Scott: are you telling me that a thread about MrImplode being an idiot isnt spam 2010-05-21 17:35:54 Scott: o_o 2010-05-21 17:35:57 Ross: kinda has a play on words from not-related 2010-05-21 17:36:00 Ross: :D 2010-05-21 17:36:02 Bernard721: Well of course, I mean I'm 15... but its the players choice 2010-05-21 17:36:13 Food: The big boys forum with no offical name forum. 2010-05-21 17:36:15 Scott: So technically you shouldnt be in that forum hehe :P 2010-05-21 17:36:16 Food: There we go. 2010-05-21 17:36:25 darp: People can lie about their age. That's fine. The legal considerations remain covered. 2010-05-21 17:36:26 bcfcespley: no because people will read the word unrestricted without reading the tos 2010-05-21 17:36:27 zerocomman: does making it a clan rather than a public forum help any? 2010-05-21 17:36:32 Scott: and i highly doubt you went "mommy can i acces the big bad forum" 2010-05-21 17:36:35 KevinMp: if we had an age limit on a forum, the little kids would complain about not being allowed 2010-05-21 17:36:41 KevinMp: i could see them making multis just to access it 2010-05-21 17:36:48 Bernard721: Its the internet people 2010-05-21 17:36:49 Scott: Multis shouldnt be an issue. 2010-05-21 17:36:55 bcfcespley: Hi are you 18? yes, ok {XD} 2010-05-21 17:36:59 Ross: if people lie about their age and then get offended by what they see 2010-05-21 17:37:00 Pie: the Flame Forum has an accept thing that says only accept if you're 18, Kevin 2010-05-21 17:37:03 Ross: thats their problem 2010-05-21 17:37:13 Bernard721: Ross ::yes:: 2010-05-21 17:37:13 Scott: people can make multis to read other gang forums.. do you want us to shutdown gangs to 0 day old people lol? 2010-05-21 17:37:21 Risque: Charge admission to the flame forum :X 2010-05-21 17:37:45 007Ben: i agree with ross, if people get offended after lying about their age, its their oen fault 2010-05-21 17:37:45 Scott: if people make multis they get banned 2010-05-21 17:37:48 Scott: their own fault 2010-05-21 17:37:50 Zorg: ok the forum will remain anyway with some restrictions and a possible rename 2010-05-21 17:37:51 007Ben: own* 2010-05-21 17:38:04 Scott: Spanky 2010-05-21 17:38:09 Scott: are you actually typing 2010-05-21 17:38:13 Scott: or have you fallen asleep 2010-05-21 17:38:18 Spanky: nope 2010-05-21 17:38:20 Risque: rofl 2010-05-21 17:38:20 Ross: anyone who gets offended by a few swear words needs a slap anyway 2010-05-21 17:38:22 Tibos: no, he's been that way since before we started 2010-05-21 17:38:25 Pie: i'm thingking that too, Scott 2010-05-21 17:38:26 Pie: xD 2010-05-21 17:38:30 Pie: thinking* 2010-05-21 17:38:33 Bernard721: {XD} 2010-05-21 17:38:33 Angel: i saw that aswell 2010-05-21 17:38:33 bcfcespley: hes been typing sinse it started {XD} 2010-05-21 17:38:36 Angel: :P 2010-05-21 17:38:40 Spanky: listening 2010-05-21 17:38:49 Pascal: you mean reading 2010-05-21 17:38:51 Zorg: Ok another topic, Legacy Affairs 2010-05-21 17:38:54 KevinMp: dude... just rename it spam forum. filter the swears, but allow edgier content 2010-05-21 17:38:58 Bernard721: OK so just putting it out there... Speak up TC {XD} Private Message me 2010-05-21 17:39:07 Zorg: Do you guys want a clan that checks staff logs and reviews staff decisions or not? 2010-05-21 17:39:13 Tibos: yes! 2010-05-21 17:39:16 jonkers: yes 2010-05-21 17:39:16 Ross: damn right 2010-05-21 17:39:17 Risque: Yes 2010-05-21 17:39:19 Bernard721: ... LA? 2010-05-21 17:39:20 007Ben: that would be nice 2010-05-21 17:39:23 Pascal: what is the purpose right now? 2010-05-21 17:39:26 Pie: .. we already have one 2010-05-21 17:39:28 Bernard721: Legacy Affairs....? 2010-05-21 17:39:28 Pie: and it does just that 2010-05-21 17:39:30 Bernard721: :/ 2010-05-21 17:39:32 KevinMp: we need to see legacy affairs 2010-05-21 17:39:33 zerocomman: assuming the members aren't just going to kiss up to staff all the time 2010-05-21 17:39:34 Pie: if anyone's confused 2010-05-21 17:39:34 Scott: LA is inactive right now 2010-05-21 17:39:39 Angel: LA needs more members and to be made more public, not many people know of it's existance... 2010-05-21 17:39:40 Ross: who? FatTony? 2010-05-21 17:39:40 Zorg: Basically 2 members of LA are inactive, most issues covered are stuff that could just be ticketed to Lucas anyway. 2010-05-21 17:39:45 Ross: he might aswell be staff 2010-05-21 17:39:50 Food: I have a question, Does Legacy affairs get used as is? 2010-05-21 17:39:51 Ross: you need more less biased views 2010-05-21 17:39:57 bcfcespley: exactly ross lol 2010-05-21 17:39:58 Pie: LA gets used 2010-05-21 17:40:00 Ross: more less? 2010-05-21 17:40:02 Ross: anyway 2010-05-21 17:40:02 bcfcespley: about to say that 2010-05-21 17:40:04 Ross: point stands 2010-05-21 17:40:05 Zorg: Legacy Affairs right now raises 1 issue every 2 months or so apparently to Lucas 2010-05-21 17:40:05 jonkers: Maybe have a set number from each gang? 2010-05-21 17:40:11 Pie: I get approached by faelust occasionally 2010-05-21 17:40:16 Bernard721: I went to LA with a legitimate question, and I've never gotten a reply 2010-05-21 17:40:18 bcfcespley: please 2010-05-21 17:40:26 bcfcespley: whats the point in having it 2010-05-21 17:40:29 Zorg: FatTony and calciomoti do not reply to messages much at all. 2010-05-21 17:40:50 Zorg: The idea seemed good at the time but it never really got used as it was intended. 2010-05-21 17:40:53 Tibos: idk about Calcio, but FT is pretty active as a mod 2010-05-21 17:41:00 Angel: I propose more active/responsive members who are rustworthy to give as non-biased pov as possible. 2010-05-21 17:41:03 bcfcespley: we have a staff team, some biased players opinion matters not much to me 2010-05-21 17:41:06 Zorg: He is active as a mod but he takes 2-3 days to reply to me via PM :/ 2010-05-21 17:41:07 Angel: trust* 2010-05-21 17:41:10 Scott: alot of peopel go to faelust 2010-05-21 17:41:12 Ross: thats the only reason FT is active anymore 2010-05-21 17:41:20 Scott: I have to say she is one player that gets things done 2010-05-21 17:41:21 Ross: hes power drunk lol 2010-05-21 17:41:25 Scott: and is fair on both sides 2010-05-21 17:41:26 darp: Legacy Affairs has been both timely and effective for me thus far. Would like a few more members from each gang... maybe some public presence, but not sure. 2010-05-21 17:41:40 Zorg: We could just shutdown Legacy Affairs... and hand that job to the Elders... 2010-05-21 17:41:41 Risque: Public presence is a good idea 2010-05-21 17:41:47 Food: I don't think we need LA to be honest, why go through all the trouble of finding trust worthy players when we can just make sure we have trust worthy staff to begin with? 2010-05-21 17:41:50 Bernard721: Oh boy... Circular discussion 2010-05-21 17:41:51 KevinMp: i guess that could work 2010-05-21 17:41:58 Pie: wouldn't that include giving Elders access to RC..? 2010-05-21 17:41:59 Pie: >.> 2010-05-21 17:41:59 Tibos: sounds like a resonable idea 2010-05-21 17:42:00 bcfcespley: I went to LA before, load of rubbish got no replies at all 2010-05-21 17:42:02 Ross: yeah thats a good idea zorg 2010-05-21 17:42:03 KevinMp: elders could do both :) 2010-05-21 17:42:07 Zorg: No, just access to admin_log's 2010-05-21 17:42:10 Scott: hmm 2010-05-21 17:42:10 zerocomman: i agree. it makes sense to consolidate 2010-05-21 17:42:11 Bernard721: That could work 2010-05-21 17:42:11 Zorg: and forum_logs and such 2010-05-21 17:42:17 Scott: Ross with access to RC logs 2010-05-21 17:42:19 jonkers: That leads us to who should be elders. 2010-05-21 17:42:21 bcfcespley: hahaha 2010-05-21 17:42:22 Scott: i see a car crash 2010-05-21 17:42:24 Ross: whats RC? 2010-05-21 17:42:31 Pie: move them out of RC? or just copy them? o.0 2010-05-21 17:42:34 Tibos: but in that case, i would reduce the number of people in the CoE 2010-05-21 17:42:36 Scott: Staff System 2010-05-21 17:42:41 Scott: right 2010-05-21 17:42:42 Zorg: Then Elders could discuss staff decisions when there are no updates to talk about. 2010-05-21 17:42:49 Ross: sounds good 2010-05-21 17:42:53 KevinMp: ::yes:: 2010-05-21 17:42:54 Zorg: This is the point in the discussion where I wanted Lucas' feedback as well -_- 2010-05-21 17:42:55 Pie: i don't like that idea 2010-05-21 17:42:55 Food: Sounds like a plan. 2010-05-21 17:42:56 darp: Mmm... worth trying. 2010-05-21 17:42:56 Bernard721: I approve 2010-05-21 17:43:07 Ross: Lucas is too busy swiping off 2010-05-21 17:43:15 Risque: Can Elders veto a staff decision, by majority vote and with good reason? 2010-05-21 17:43:25 Scott: Not really .. 2010-05-21 17:43:27 Zorg: Erm, no... 2010-05-21 17:43:30 Ross: Lol 2010-05-21 17:43:32 Tibos: {xd} 2010-05-21 17:43:33 bcfcespley: {XD}{XD} 2010-05-21 17:43:40 Scott: if someone does an offense 2010-05-21 17:43:40 Zorg: Again... NOT a democracy, lol 2010-05-21 17:43:45 Scott: then theyre going to get punished 2010-05-21 17:43:46 Pie: Staff should enforce the rules, and be reviewed by the Staff Manager.. 2010-05-21 17:43:46 Bernard721: 1000c to vote against my Ban 2010-05-21 17:43:47 Bernard721: Gogogogogo! 2010-05-21 17:43:47 Pie: Lucas 2010-05-21 17:43:57 Ross: Lucas should be fired 2010-05-21 17:44:00 Ross: Lucas... 2010-05-21 17:44:04 bcfcespley: promote scott lol 2010-05-21 17:44:09 bcfcespley: only one who bothers around here 2010-05-21 17:44:09 Scott: you cant exactly say "he fell asleep whislt on the enter button" if i -4 someome that has 3 spam offences this year 2010-05-21 17:44:09 Food: ^^ Agree with Pie. 2010-05-21 17:44:18 Scott: ive heard that excuse 5 times now 2010-05-21 17:44:24 Zorg: yes and Lucas should be active in the Elders forum in their review of logs 2010-05-21 17:44:26 Scott: i fell asleep .. my ass 2010-05-21 17:44:47 Zorg: We're not talking about giving Elders any power over staff decisions... and we dont really have anything to hide. :/ 2010-05-21 17:44:57 Zorg: Most staff decisions are based on a pre-determined ruleset written by the staff manager anyway. 2010-05-21 17:45:06 Ross: except Deegs corpse? 2010-05-21 17:45:26 Bernard721: The Staff Manager seems really active.... 2010-05-21 17:45:30 Scott: Deegs threads have pretty much been reviewed by Lucas and are upto date 2010-05-21 17:45:30 Tibos: so we get to check up on staff and tell Lucas when he needs to spank someone? 2010-05-21 17:45:35 Scott: and Lucas is active 2010-05-21 17:45:39 Zorg: Account Admins collect evidence, review account history and determine a punishment based on rules defined by Deeg and Lucas... that should be easily defendable if questioned. :/ 2010-05-21 17:46:03 Pie: I think that a group as large as the Elders wouldn't be capable of making decisions on Staff issues 2010-05-21 17:46:14 Pie: if there is a group, i think expanding LA slightly is the best option 2010-05-21 17:46:18 Risque: That was part of my point, Zorg. Staff isn't all knowing O.o 2010-05-21 17:46:19 Scott: Elders will be reduced once inactive have been kicked by myself :D 2010-05-21 17:46:21 Zorg: They wouldn't be making decisions though. 2010-05-21 17:46:27 darp: Then expand LA a bit. It has worked very well for me. 2010-05-21 17:46:27 Pie: i meant 2010-05-21 17:46:33 Pie: reviewing staff decisions when needed 2010-05-21 17:46:53 Pie: Lucas does the same job as LA 2010-05-21 17:46:55 Angel: so if LA turns into Elders job aswell, what will decide Elders, wold you use the method i suggested? Oh applications then reviewing within the Elders forum? 2010-05-21 17:47:04 Scott: Bit of both Angel 2010-05-21 17:47:05 Ross: or, incoprorate less biased views and let the elders do it? 2010-05-21 17:47:20 Scott: Elders has alot of bias people in it :P 2010-05-21 17:47:21 Ross: and give them more purpose in the process 2010-05-21 17:47:21 Angel: to me that sounds like the best approach 2010-05-21 17:47:22 Pie: the expanded LA wouldn't be biased 2010-05-21 17:47:28 Ross: its universal to gangs though 2010-05-21 17:47:32 Angel: but they are just giving input 2010-05-21 17:47:32 Pie: I think getting respected community members would be good 2010-05-21 17:47:35 Scott: Ross you cant exactly say you're unbiased :P 2010-05-21 17:47:35 Angel: like always 2010-05-21 17:47:39 KevinMp: Pie yes :O 2010-05-21 17:47:39 Zorg: Yes the problem is players dont trust a single individual to be unbiased and watch over staff... they didn't trust Deeg and I doubt they trust Lucas any more. 2010-05-21 17:47:41 Angel: it is ultimately a staff decision 2010-05-21 17:47:47 Bernard721: PLayers should have access to their own personal crime history 2010-05-21 17:47:51 Bernard721: That was really random 2010-05-21 17:47:52 Scott: Nope 2010-05-21 17:47:52 Bernard721: But yea. 2010-05-21 17:47:56 Scott: Not happening 2010-05-21 17:47:57 Zorg: Making the staff process more transparent would solve that. 2010-05-21 17:48:05 darp: Agreed with Zorg on both points. 2010-05-21 17:48:10 Pie: But who do they think chooses who's in LA, Zorg? 2010-05-21 17:48:21 Pie: the same person that chooses who the staff manager is.. 2010-05-21 17:48:28 Zorg: When you assign overseeing power to a single person, most players will assume they're friends with all the staff and in it for the power, etc, etc 2010-05-21 17:48:42 Zorg: I picked the LA :/ 2010-05-21 17:48:48 Pie: you also picked Lucas 2010-05-21 17:48:49 Zorg: Originally the staff manager couldnt even view their forum 2010-05-21 17:48:52 darp: You don't have to pull the curtain all the way back for every one to see, but there is benefit to people thinking they have some insight or influence on things. 2010-05-21 17:48:53 Ross: to be fair though, Lucas is more likely to just accept the staffs decision than turn around and say it was wrong 2010-05-21 17:48:59 bcfcespley: yeah me sucking zorg of had me nothing to do with being able to do graphics 2010-05-21 17:49:00 Pie: so why shouldn't they doubt your decisons on one and not the other? 2010-05-21 17:49:05 Scott: Actually 2010-05-21 17:49:10 KevinMp: bcfcespley -_- lol 2010-05-21 17:49:17 Scott: Lucas reverted 2 of my decisions when I was rank 2 2010-05-21 17:49:26 Scott: He does his job. 2010-05-21 17:49:31 darp: And Staff managers have *never* done due dilligence that I've seen in investigating or communicationg staff/player issues. 2010-05-21 17:49:34 Bernard721: Checks and balances are a mighty thing 2010-05-21 17:49:35 bcfcespley: BUT 2010-05-21 17:49:39 Tibos: groups are more trustworthy than a single person 2010-05-21 17:49:41 bcfcespley: i think scott would do a better job 2010-05-21 17:49:48 Zorg: Of course Lucas is, thats how chains of command work. I'd always side with staff even if they were wrong, i'd then yell at them in private after... 2010-05-21 17:49:50 Scott: I'm fine as development manager 2010-05-21 17:49:57 Ross: Lol 2010-05-21 17:50:04 Pie: It's true.. xD 2010-05-21 17:50:10 darp: Oh dear. 2010-05-21 17:50:11 Zorg: You have to present a unified front as a staff team. 2010-05-21 17:50:11 bcfcespley: lol ive been yelled at {XD} 2010-05-21 17:50:16 Zorg: And keep the arguements in private. 2010-05-21 17:50:37 Scott: Right so to recap 2010-05-21 17:50:38 Bernard721: Not to be that guy, and bring in politics... but I mean a congress of elected representives, like the LA would be a great thing to have to review staff decisions 2010-05-21 17:50:42 Scott: Bigger LA team or Edlers ? 2010-05-21 17:50:48 Ross: Elders 2010-05-21 17:50:49 Bernard721: Elders 2010-05-21 17:50:50 Scott: Elders* 2010-05-21 17:50:51 bcfcespley: Elders 2010-05-21 17:50:53 Pascal: elders 2010-05-21 17:50:54 Tibos: i sai 16 elders 2010-05-21 17:50:54 Pie: Larger selection of LA 2010-05-21 17:50:55 Angel: Elders 2010-05-21 17:50:55 007Ben: elders 2010-05-21 17:50:59 Scott: Or 2010-05-21 17:51:00 Food: LA 2010-05-21 17:51:07 Scott: one sec 2010-05-21 17:51:09 Scott: i have an idea 2010-05-21 17:51:15 Zorg: I just think making staff decisions public to the Elders... and the rules that govern staff decisions public to the Elders... would lead to very little discussion on their part as they would understand our position. 2010-05-21 17:51:16 Pie: a group as large as the elders would be inefficient.. -.- 2010-05-21 17:51:18 Scott: La can only be picked from elders 2010-05-21 17:51:19 darp: Hmm... outvoted. :P Was going to say bigger LA team, but try with the Elders. See if it solves the inactivity problem. 2010-05-21 17:51:26 Zorg: Unless our position is in some way flawed, in which case they have every right to argue with it. 2010-05-21 17:51:32 Scott: so youd have to progress to elder before you could have a shot at LA ? 2010-05-21 17:51:43 Pie: Pick LA from elders 2010-05-21 17:51:45 Pie: problem solved 2010-05-21 17:51:46 darp: Or LA grabbed from Elders could work,. 2010-05-21 17:51:46 Bernard721: That could work too 2010-05-21 17:51:49 KevinMp: that sounds fair i guess 2010-05-21 17:51:52 Pie: darp : win 2010-05-21 17:51:53 Bernard721: A higher chain 2010-05-21 17:51:54 Pie: 8) 2010-05-21 17:51:54 Scott: thats what i said darp 2010-05-21 17:51:55 Food: That works Scott. 2010-05-21 17:51:55 Scott: XD 2010-05-21 17:52:05 Zorg: Did darp just out-vote everybody with one vote? wtf 2010-05-21 17:52:14 Ross: how would that change anything? 2010-05-21 17:52:17 Pie: i beat him to saying it dammit 2010-05-21 17:52:20 Ross: it would still be faelust, FT and calcio... 2010-05-21 17:52:21 Tibos: no, he has a good point 2010-05-21 17:52:23 jonkers: Have we decided on who should be elders? 2010-05-21 17:52:24 Scott: Nope 2010-05-21 17:52:29 Scott: once we de-weed elders 2010-05-21 17:52:31 Bernard721: A meeting in ONline Chat of elders can solve so many things.. I mean just look at this.. 4 representives from 4 gangs having a discussion 2010-05-21 17:52:37 Zorg: Inactive Elders will be removed, the remaining Elders.... 2010-05-21 17:52:41 Scott: im sure La will start to collect members from my teah 2010-05-21 17:52:41 Zorg: will decide who the new Elders will be 2010-05-21 17:52:43 darp: lol... I'm lagging a bit. :P 2010-05-21 17:52:47 Ross: right 2010-05-21 17:52:48 Scott: team* 2010-05-21 17:52:49 Zorg: and then all those people combined... will decide who the LA people will be 2010-05-21 17:53:01 KevinMp: sounds like a plan ::yes:: 2010-05-21 17:53:07 Scott: ok 2010-05-21 17:53:08 darp: Go with that and review next LegCon. 2010-05-21 17:53:15 Risque: I concur 2010-05-21 17:53:15 jonkers: What about a max number of elders? 2010-05-21 17:53:18 Zorg: And how do we suggest we make the secret group within the secret Elders public knowledge to those confused as to why they were banned? :/ 2010-05-21 17:53:26 Rotten: like 50 elders max 2010-05-21 17:53:38 bcfcespley: ok zorg just confused me {XD} 2010-05-21 17:53:40 Ross: have an LA rep? 2010-05-21 17:53:41 Tibos: 50 is a big number :P 2010-05-21 17:53:42 jonkers: I think 50 is too many 2010-05-21 17:53:47 Pie: a rep sounds good 2010-05-21 17:53:47 Ross: who is responsible for explaining 2010-05-21 17:53:52 Zorg: It will stay around 20 or so people 2010-05-21 17:53:53 Pie: With a thread somehere 2010-05-21 17:53:59 KevinMp: 50 = too many. try... 20? ish? 2010-05-21 17:54:00 Pie: or a page displaying information 2010-05-21 17:54:09 jonkers: What about a max number per gang? 2010-05-21 17:54:14 Ross: no 2010-05-21 17:54:14 bcfcespley: no jonkers 2010-05-21 17:54:16 Scott: Hopefully elder control can be added to RC in the day :P 2010-05-21 17:54:18 bcfcespley: because people do move gangs :/ 2010-05-21 17:54:19 darp: Community Menu link to a page? 2010-05-21 17:54:20 Zorg: Elders and LA are independant of gangs. :/ 2010-05-21 17:54:22 Tibos: CoE has nothing to do with gangs 2010-05-21 17:54:26 Bernard721: Ok.. so we're having an applation process into the LA? How are Elders elected... did we resolve that yet? 2010-05-21 17:54:27 Zorg: I dont want it to have any attachment to gangs at all 2010-05-21 17:54:33 Angel: Zorg Elders picking who becomes Elder would like to biased choosing... If there was a staff member to take it interest, then brought to the attention of the Elders, it would feel less like a lolly bag, picking the best ones you like... 2010-05-21 17:54:36 Pie: create an open forum where the new LA can review Staff and the discussion be viewed by everyone 2010-05-21 17:54:41 Pie: but only the LA can post.. 2010-05-21 17:54:44 Scott: Right now angel 2010-05-21 17:54:45 Zorg: As far as I'm concerned one of the rules of the Elder forum will be that gangs dont exist there. 2010-05-21 17:54:53 Scott: i like the idea of elders suggesting and applications 2010-05-21 17:54:53 Ross: fair enough 2010-05-21 17:55:03 Zorg: ooo like a security forum only instead of staff using it... 2010-05-21 17:55:04 Zorg: LA members? 2010-05-21 17:55:08 bcfcespley: lets face it how is heggs not in coe? {XD} 2010-05-21 17:55:08 jonkers: sounds good 2010-05-21 17:55:13 Pie: yep 2010-05-21 17:55:16 Scott: heggs is in coe ... 2010-05-21 17:55:17 Food: Elders reommand people, scott reviews them and makes a dicision? 2010-05-21 17:55:20 bcfcespley: oh {XD} 2010-05-21 17:55:20 Ross: she is... 2010-05-21 17:55:25 Ross: BCFCEEJIT 2010-05-21 17:55:29 Zorg: could try that I guess... like a public forum run by legacy affairs 2010-05-21 17:55:33 Scott: see i know my own members 8~) 2010-05-21 17:55:36 Scott: 8) * :P 2010-05-21 17:55:40 Pie: but in security, everyone can post.. in the LA one, remove the option to post for anybody else 2010-05-21 17:55:43 darp: Good. 2010-05-21 17:55:46 KevinMp: so... players nominate people. staff then chooses from those 2010-05-21 17:55:55 KevinMp: and they become elders, who choose LA? 2010-05-21 17:56:01 Zorg: erm no 2010-05-21 17:56:02 zerocomman: elders choose la 2010-05-21 17:56:04 Ross: elders choose the elders... 2010-05-21 17:56:08 KevinMp: o other way around. oops 2010-05-21 17:56:13 KevinMp: but same thing? 2010-05-21 17:56:15 Zorg: Elders choose Elders... Elders choose LA. 2010-05-21 17:56:15 Scott: We're going in circles here 2010-05-21 17:56:23 Zorg: If you're not an Elder... you have no say in either 2010-05-21 17:56:23 KevinMp: :O intriguing :P 2010-05-21 17:56:29 Pie: xD 2010-05-21 17:56:34 Ross: Lol 2010-05-21 17:56:38 Zorg: I asked if people wanted to keep it an elitist invite only group, you guys said yes :P 2010-05-21 17:56:39 Bernard721: So we're weeding out the inactives, and they will eventually pick new ones 2010-05-21 17:56:40 Tibos: power hungry old people 2010-05-21 17:56:47 Scott: I'm guessing myself and Zorg will run Elders and Lucas and Zorg will run LA still 2010-05-21 17:56:55 KevinMp: but on what grounds do they pick these people? 2010-05-21 17:56:59 Pie: Elders i thought were running LA 2010-05-21 17:57:00 Angel: staff gathers those that are interested, filters out the 'not going to happen', then brings rhe list to the attention of the Elders, they decide who amongst the list who would best fit the role, the staff then either agrees with them, suggests an alternat 2010-05-21 17:57:01 KevinMp: what prereqs should they have? 2010-05-21 17:57:10 Angel: ive, or decides against it, and says why 2010-05-21 17:57:11 Zorg: Erm, I doubt I'll be involved in Legacy Affairs... staff decisions have never been something I'm interested in :/ 2010-05-21 17:57:17 Zorg: that's why I have staff and a staff manager :( 2010-05-21 17:57:23 Bernard721: {XD} 2010-05-21 17:57:30 Scott: So you're going to butcher my elders 2010-05-21 17:57:32 Zorg: I just want to make cool stuff 2010-05-21 17:57:42 Food: Lol Zorg. {xd} 2010-05-21 17:57:45 Scott: Saying cool, my flag people :d 2010-05-21 17:57:54 KevinMp: scott... shush {XD} 2010-05-21 17:57:59 KevinMp: we discuss your flag latah! :O 2010-05-21 17:58:01 Bernard721: Already been an hour... lets get to the fun stuff... 2010-05-21 17:58:06 Zorg: Ok, hmm there was one last thing I wanted to talk about. 2010-05-21 17:58:23 Zorg: ...lemme remember what it was 2010-05-21 17:58:29 Risque: ::roll:: 2010-05-21 17:58:31 KevinMp: something about wl perhaps? 2010-05-21 17:58:32 jonkers: :/ 2010-05-21 17:58:32 Scott: Dev, wiki? 2010-05-21 17:58:34 Food: Zorg getting old. :O 2010-05-21 17:58:39 Tibos: so....recap Elders pick Elders, Elders pick LA people, Security Forum comes back for others to submit wrong staff decisions? 2010-05-21 17:58:39 Scott: Destorying apart of the game? 2010-05-21 17:58:53 Bernard721: WL/Duel System/Abilities time {ebil} 2010-05-21 17:58:57 Ross: combat achievements :D 2010-05-21 17:58:57 Pie: that's not what i was aiming at, Tibos 2010-05-21 17:58:58 KevinMp: YAY! 2010-05-21 17:59:10 Scott: Ross getting his account removed :P 2010-05-21 17:59:11 Pie: Security Forum returns for LA to discuss, with everybody else onlooking 2010-05-21 17:59:21 Scott: Pie 2010-05-21 17:59:24 Scott: gtfo off my color 2010-05-21 17:59:27 Tibos: isn't that a bit public? 2010-05-21 17:59:30 Pie: Zorg told me to use Purple 2010-05-21 17:59:36 bcfcespley: zorg could you tell us the systems your working on, in what order and the rough time scale? 2010-05-21 17:59:37 Pie: Why shouldn't it be public? 2010-05-21 17:59:50 Pie: how can people have confidence in something they know nothing about? 2010-05-21 17:59:51 KevinMp: ok we all wanna no when the BIG update is comin :P 2010-05-21 17:59:56 Zorg: Yeah the new stuff I'm working on I guess. 2010-05-21 17:59:57 Scott: bcfc right now, Main Page and bug fixes :P and duel 2010-05-21 18:00:01 Tibos: that's how LA was and darp was pleased with it 2010-05-21 18:00:07 bcfcespley: no what i mean is 2010-05-21 18:00:12 Pie: And he was about the only person 2010-05-21 18:00:15 bcfcespley: when will he get around to say achievements 2010-05-21 18:00:22 Zorg: Ok first, the current player count. 2010-05-21 18:00:31 Zorg: It hasn't actually dropped, as such. 2010-05-21 18:00:32 Scott: Next few months bcfc 2010-05-21 18:00:41 KevinMp: oo before we go to far... 2010-05-21 18:00:46 Zorg: What has happened is we've stopped advertising and I've stopped paying attention to our voting sites. 2010-05-21 18:00:50 KevinMp: have you considered in game ads yet? 2010-05-21 18:00:52 Zorg: Gold listing Legacy and stuff. 2010-05-21 18:01:12 Scott: ... 2010-05-21 18:01:13 KevinMp: Hmm... im trying to think about how i found this game 2010-05-21 18:01:16 Zorg: Basically this is the result of playing the game myself at various level brackets and being deeply unsatisified with the experience. 2010-05-21 18:01:17 Scott: we're not having ingame ads 2010-05-21 18:01:25 Zorg: It makes me not want to spend money advertising right now. 2010-05-21 18:01:29 KevinMp: i dont even remember how i found it 2010-05-21 18:01:29 Pascal: get more ways to get subtime, so we have more advertisements means more new players? 2010-05-21 18:01:31 bcfcespley: advertisment vid on youtube, its free! 2010-05-21 18:01:36 Scott: bcfc 2010-05-21 18:01:43 Bernard721: Advertising what though Bcf? 2010-05-21 18:01:46 Bernard721: Text? 2010-05-21 18:01:47 Bernard721: :/ 2010-05-21 18:01:47 Scott: how is watching a screen on a browser based game interestic 2010-05-21 18:01:49 Scott: OMG 2010-05-21 18:01:54 Zorg: The old player count was the result of the current player count + the constant new players coming and going. 2010-05-21 18:01:55 Scott: the square changed coor *signs up* 2010-05-21 18:01:55 KevinMp: that comes down to selling it :P 2010-05-21 18:02:02 Scott: color* 2010-05-21 18:02:03 bcfcespley: not like that you idiot 2010-05-21 18:02:16 bcfcespley: get someone to make a good video 2010-05-21 18:02:16 Angel: work on the achievements 2010-05-21 18:02:18 Food: Stay on topic please. 2010-05-21 18:02:24 Scott: Cant exactly make Legacy look like anything other than what it is 2010-05-21 18:02:24 Zorg: So the drop is purely the result in the stopping of advertising, I could get the player count back to 3000-4000 by starting again. 2010-05-21 18:02:25 Angel: so people will want to refer people they like 2010-05-21 18:02:31 Angel: and people will get along easier 2010-05-21 18:02:33 Zorg: But I'd rather wait until the new combat and things are done. 2010-05-21 18:02:38 bcfcespley: you can scott lol 2010-05-21 18:02:39 Zorg: And relaunch the game with new advertisements and such. 2010-05-21 18:02:40 Tibos: bcf, i'm sure that if you or someone else makes a good video, Zorg would use it 2010-05-21 18:02:42 bcfcespley: its called false advertising 2010-05-21 18:02:43 KevinMp: can we offer monetary vaule to those who refer people? 2010-05-21 18:02:47 bcfcespley: movie makers do it all the time {XD} 2010-05-21 18:02:49 KevinMp: other than achievements, like... 2010-05-21 18:02:49 Pascal: well get more ways to get subtime... 2010-05-21 18:02:52 Zorg: bcfc stop 2010-05-21 18:02:54 Scott: Thats illegal by UK law and legacy will be sued 2010-05-21 18:02:55 KevinMp: 1k per person that gets to level 10? 2010-05-21 18:02:58 Zorg: Like I said I have no interest in advertising at the moment 2010-05-21 18:03:01 HappyDays: have we discussed revenue ideas for the game yet to ensure zorg can spend more time on the game ??? 2010-05-21 18:03:10 Zorg: My revenue is fine. 2010-05-21 18:03:15 Bernard721: Referal system needs an overhaul... 2010-05-21 18:03:21 Zorg: For now anyway. 2010-05-21 18:03:25 HappyDays: :P 2010-05-21 18:03:37 HappyDays: So it would be of benefit to ensure a steady stream 2010-05-21 18:03:41 HappyDays: For a rainy day 2010-05-21 18:04:08 Zorg: I'm not concerned about money, I want to make the game far more fun especially at early levels before relaunching it with new advertisements. 2010-05-21 18:04:18 KevinMp: Hmmm 2010-05-21 18:04:21 Ross: get the achievements done zorg 2010-05-21 18:04:22 Zorg: That is what all the planned changes are about. 2010-05-21 18:04:29 Ross: always adds a fun dimension 2010-05-21 18:04:31 KevinMp: maybe make the first few levels easier to get? 2010-05-21 18:04:33 Zorg: Again achievements are low priority 2010-05-21 18:04:34 Food: I agree wi9th ross, we need achievements. 2010-05-21 18:04:38 Bernard721: I desire much more in depth role play.. 2010-05-21 18:04:42 zerocomman: kevinmp this game is already easy enough 2010-05-21 18:04:45 Zorg: I'm talking about rebuilding the core stuff that makes the game, not working on small side things 2010-05-21 18:04:47 KevinMp: cuz when i logged onto dev, i kind of gave up on leveling. 2010-05-21 18:04:48 Pie: Bernard : Join DF 2010-05-21 18:04:54 Bernard721: I'll pass. 2010-05-21 18:04:55 Pie: they kill you if you don't partake in it 2010-05-21 18:04:56 KevinMp: oo the core. ok 2010-05-21 18:04:59 zerocomman: it's just boring. if eveyone is honest, they are here 90% for the community 2010-05-21 18:05:04 Tibos: {ebil} 2010-05-21 18:05:20 Pascal: kind of quests for them? like attack your enemy, congrats you get 100 credits 2010-05-21 18:05:26 Scott: yeah but the community cant exactly help everything 2010-05-21 18:05:28 Pascal: just basics would do 2010-05-21 18:05:29 KevinMp: what were u planning for the new game overhaul? 2010-05-21 18:05:35 Scott: 20% of the community cry about legacy daily 2010-05-21 18:05:37 KevinMp: we need to knwo about that to incorporate more stuff :P 2010-05-21 18:05:41 Zorg: Yes the new combat alone will make warfare and leveling more fun... the other changes... removal of stats, shops and some others are designed to decrease needless complexity in systems. 2010-05-21 18:05:44 Pie: All details were posted in blogs? o.0 2010-05-21 18:05:53 KevinMp: honestly... we should see how that goes first 2010-05-21 18:05:58 Food: Achievements to me : Being able to work towards something and goals, also brings back some competetiveness(Real word?) to the game, which would bring back alot of activity from old and new players. 2010-05-21 18:06:09 Bernard721: Make a new tutorial system, where you earn credits/ability points/and stat points for new signups 2010-05-21 18:06:13 zerocomman: food nailed it 2010-05-21 18:06:18 HappyDays: is the level 80 to 85 thing in the pipeline 2010-05-21 18:06:18 Food: I think achievements have alot of potential. 2010-05-21 18:06:24 Scott: people have yet to earn the current achievements 2010-05-21 18:06:25 Zorg: Yes I agree, achievements worked really well in games like World of Warcraft. 2010-05-21 18:06:31 HappyDays: I liked the idea of fighting my way to the top 2010-05-21 18:06:43 HappyDays: but dropping if I went inACTIVE 2010-05-21 18:06:46 Zorg: But I can't add achievements for systems that are going to be vastly changed by the rebuild. 2010-05-21 18:06:52 HappyDays: Gives you something to do when you return again 2010-05-21 18:06:58 KevinMp: so we need the new system in first 2010-05-21 18:07:02 Zorg: HappyDays that idea would suck with the current combat system though. 2010-05-21 18:07:03 Scott: ontop of that theyre not working correctly atm 2010-05-21 18:07:08 Tibos: HD that's the spectral item idea 2010-05-21 18:07:15 Zorg: The new one I'm designing takes a genuine degree of skill to be good at though, so could work. 2010-05-21 18:07:27 Angel: how will it be more fun? are you going to change the look? the same applies with FT's point in the forums, this game is text based, it goes page by page, how can that change? what is this system you seem to be working on? and why wasn't the great tertis 2010-05-21 18:07:31 Angel: idea used? :P 2010-05-21 18:07:40 Food: No offence to the idea HD suggested, but that will get old quick..just like spectral. 2010-05-21 18:07:52 KevinMp: april fools joke ftw {XD} 2010-05-21 18:08:03 Tibos: text game != non-interactive 2010-05-21 18:08:09 HappyDays: thats not my idea 2010-05-21 18:08:16 HappyDays: and i did not suggest it :p 2010-05-21 18:08:24 Angel: it is as interactive as it gets 2010-05-21 18:08:25 Food: I know, can't recall who did. :P 2010-05-21 18:08:31 Zorg: But yeah I've been adding new stuff on top of the game for years and our player count hasn't increased. This is what caused me to take a step back and look at what was wrong with the stuff we have in place already. 2010-05-21 18:08:37 Angel: so thoughts for 'more' is limited 2010-05-21 18:08:42 Zorg: No amount of new stuff is going to fix the problems, it's time to rebuild the old stuff. 2010-05-21 18:08:49 Scott: like clans :( 2010-05-21 18:08:58 Zorg: no not like clans 2010-05-21 18:09:01 Zorg: clans again are a side system 2010-05-21 18:09:06 Ross: go Zorg Thatcher! 2010-05-21 18:09:09 HappyDays: zorg can we have a buddy system game wide 2010-05-21 18:09:13 Scott: but theyre still old :P 2010-05-21 18:09:20 HappyDays: for example noob 1 signs up and gets sent a mail 2010-05-21 18:09:25 Zorg: It's the core of the game I'm addressing with these changes, stats, items, fighting, warfare, turns, jobs... the stuff people spend most of their time using. 2010-05-21 18:09:30 Scott: We have guides for that HappyDays 2010-05-21 18:09:37 HappyDays: saying happysays would be delighted to get to know you 2010-05-21 18:09:43 Ross: zorg, is the combat system highest priority then? 2010-05-21 18:09:43 Angel: no amount of new stuff is going to fix the problems, you said it yourself, why spend all this time changing it, if the problem remains? 2010-05-21 18:09:48 HappyDays: drop him a mail if you wish 2010-05-21 18:09:53 HappyDays: to beuild friendships 2010-05-21 18:10:00 HappyDays: build 2010-05-21 18:10:09 HappyDays: and so creating bonds 2010-05-21 18:10:09 Pie: nothing is being added on.. 2010-05-21 18:10:12 Pie: it's being rebuilt.. 2010-05-21 18:10:12 Zorg: Anyway I've explained all this in my blog already. 2010-05-21 18:10:17 Tibos: indeed 2010-05-21 18:10:34 Scott: ok 2010-05-21 18:10:48 Scott: I'm now goign to ask gangs to raise any points 2010-05-21 18:10:50 Scott: so DF 2010-05-21 18:10:56 Scott: do you have any issues you want to raise 2010-05-21 18:11:01 jonkers: we do 2010-05-21 18:11:04 Tibos: sure 2010-05-21 18:11:11 jonkers: Tibos wil out line the main points 2010-05-21 18:11:11 Scott: Go ahead 2010-05-21 18:11:19 KevinMp: Nows ur chance BoD. send me ur stuff. i already marked whats in the forums 2010-05-21 18:11:38 jonkers: Kevin DF are talking. 2010-05-21 18:11:44 Tibos: to blunt it out, we think there needs to be a more drastic cost to switching gangs 2010-05-21 18:11:49 KevinMp: :*( lol 2010-05-21 18:11:52 Tibos: or perhaps a change alltogether 2010-05-21 18:11:57 Scott: 500c is alot to a level 20 2010-05-21 18:12:00 bcfcespley: you werent complaining last year 2010-05-21 18:12:01 Zorg: that was the point of gang reps 2010-05-21 18:12:05 jonkers: or a total ban on changing gang during a WL round. 2010-05-21 18:12:07 bcfcespley: when everyone was joining you 2010-05-21 18:12:07 Zorg: to make it harder to switch 2010-05-21 18:12:13 Tibos: bcf, i actually was ;) 2010-05-21 18:12:15 Zorg: hush bcfc 2010-05-21 18:12:26 Tibos: anyway, 2 ideas crossed our minds 2010-05-21 18:12:35 Tibos: 1) increase cost for multiple joins in a period of time 2010-05-21 18:12:48 SlickVic: I would suggest a time limit on joining another after leaving one. 2010-05-21 18:12:53 Tibos: ex: join DF cost 500c. Join OC a week later cost 1000c 2010-05-21 18:12:57 Scott: So for example 500c the first time.. 750 the second and so on ? 2010-05-21 18:12:59 SlickVic: 2 weeks or something 2010-05-21 18:13:11 Scott: Is gang hopping a big problem ? 2010-05-21 18:13:19 Tibos: and the cost gets reset after a small while 2010-05-21 18:13:23 Scott: i mean. Its a cost to one gang but a gain to another? 2010-05-21 18:13:26 Pie: it's a game.. if yuo're not having fun in a gang you joined, why should you have to stay there? -.- 2010-05-21 18:13:27 Food: It's a game, people should be free to come and go as they wish on here, the system we have now is fine. 2010-05-21 18:13:34 zerocomman: however, it drives who dominates the wl each round 2010-05-21 18:13:40 zerocomman: i've been both on winning and losing sides of that 2010-05-21 18:13:40 Tibos: another idea is from football 2010-05-21 18:13:41 SlickVic: I don't consider it a problem 2010-05-21 18:14:00 Tibos: to minimize the interference in WL strategy, have a transfer window of 2 weeks at the start of each round 2010-05-21 18:14:01 Scott: ah but WF isnt just the members 2010-05-21 18:14:03 Ross: competitive balance is worse than MLB in this game {XD} 2010-05-21 18:14:06 Tibos: and 2 weeks after joining the game 2010-05-21 18:14:07 Scott: tatics come into play 2010-05-21 18:14:23 zerocomman: tactics are useless if you lack sheer numbers scott 2010-05-21 18:14:29 Ross: you need to make the repurcussions for leaving gangs much higher 2010-05-21 18:14:31 Angel: you don't penalise people staying and you shouldn't penalise them leaving, last time i checked, there is nothing against the rules about leaving a gang, just getting kicked by it... 2010-05-21 18:14:34 Zorg: I dont think forcing players to stay in gangs they do not wish to be in by cost or time limits solves anything. 2010-05-21 18:14:38 Scott: I've seen a team of 3 take down a building 2010-05-21 18:15:00 Scott: when i was a player myself and base would camp hq's with cloak so lower members could square grab 2010-05-21 18:15:04 Ross: or more incentives to stay in gangs longer 2010-05-21 18:15:09 Ross: gang loyalty honors banners please :D 2010-05-21 18:15:14 Tibos: that's a fair idea Ross 2010-05-21 18:15:19 Scott: Like banners? 2010-05-21 18:15:25 Ross: indeed 2010-05-21 18:15:34 Scott: hmm 2010-05-21 18:15:35 Zorg: I think if all the gangs find it a problem they could come with ideas between themselves to stop it. 2010-05-21 18:15:36 Rotten: Ross just wants more banners 2010-05-21 18:15:36 HappyDays: who cares about banners 2010-05-21 18:15:41 Ross: i do 2010-05-21 18:15:43 Angel: that doesn't help 2010-05-21 18:15:48 Pascal: I do 2010-05-21 18:15:49 Angel: as soon as they get the banner 2010-05-21 18:15:51 Tibos: @Zorg in the Senate Forum :P 2010-05-21 18:15:59 Angel: they will want to leave to get the othr gang related banners 2010-05-21 18:16:01 Ross: i've been in TC over 4 years 2010-05-21 18:16:06 Ross: noone has na excuse to leave gangs 2010-05-21 18:16:10 Ross: an* 2010-05-21 18:16:12 HappyDays: sure they do 2010-05-21 18:16:21 Zorg: The problem is when someone leaves your gang you're annoyed, when someone joins your gang you're happy... you give little consideration to who they gang hopped through to get to you. 2010-05-21 18:16:21 Bernard721: Yikes. 2010-05-21 18:16:24 Food: Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Time in gang, etc..going to be under the new achievements Bcfc? 2010-05-21 18:16:44 Ross: just have it as an honours banner 2010-05-21 18:16:46 Zorg: If I was running a gang I'd black list those who left after a short period of time, and then deny them entry if they tried to come back... 2010-05-21 18:16:48 bcfcespley: yeah food i have made it 2010-05-21 18:16:49 Zorg: But that's just me 2010-05-21 18:16:50 Rotten: I have a idea 2010-05-21 18:17:03 bcfcespley: i did make loyalty achievements 2010-05-21 18:17:05 Tibos: you banned that Zorg :P 2010-05-21 18:17:11 Food: There you go. :O 2010-05-21 18:17:14 Rotten: Could we have some sort of drafting for gangs? Like all the hoppers could be held in a draft 2010-05-21 18:17:25 Ross: wouldnt work 2010-05-21 18:17:30 HappyDays: how would that work rotten ?? 2010-05-21 18:17:30 Ross: too much backlash 2010-05-21 18:17:33 KevinMp: they would leave for the gang they wanna b in :P 2010-05-21 18:17:38 Zorg: Make a rule... if you leave this gang and then come back you must spend 2 months at rank 1 before progressing... 2010-05-21 18:17:41 Angel: there you go again penalising peoples chooses to be different... 2010-05-21 18:17:47 Rotten: not my idea hd just passing on the word 2010-05-21 18:17:49 Scott: The problem with gang hopping is 2010-05-21 18:17:50 bcfcespley: ranks are useless lol 2010-05-21 18:17:53 Scott: its their choice to 2010-05-21 18:17:54 bcfcespley: its just a number to me 2010-05-21 18:17:57 Ross: noone cares enough for ranks anymore 2010-05-21 18:18:04 zerocomman: yea rank 1 as punishment does nothing 2010-05-21 18:18:07 Scott: if they dont liek one gang they will continue playing if they switch 2010-05-21 18:18:08 Pie: not your idea? 2010-05-21 18:18:09 Pie: %u05D3 2010-05-21 18:18:15 Pie: 23:17:37 [Rotten] I have a idea 2010-05-21 18:18:16 Bernard721: Going to cut my time here short... The discussions seem to be going really swimmingly.. I'll enjoy skimming the log tomorrow 2010-05-21 18:18:39 Zorg: I just dont see any suggestions that fix anything, if it is a problem. 2010-05-21 18:18:43 Food: I don't think there should be any penalty for leaving gangs, as I said..it's a game, people should be free to come and go, each gang has there own merits and appeals, I see no harm in people leaving one to check out another. 2010-05-21 18:18:53 Bernard721: Adios everyone ::yes:: 2010-05-21 18:18:54 Zorg: You think someone is going to come help you in the wasteland if they're forced to stay due to a time limit or lack of credits? 2010-05-21 18:19:01 zerocomman: someone in df suggested that if someone switches gangs mid-map, they are not allowed access to wl until reset 2010-05-21 18:19:02 Angel: it's not a problem... 2010-05-21 18:19:05 HappyDays: oooooooooo did we discuss gang banks 2010-05-21 18:19:14 Angel: If it annoys you big deal, it happens everywhere 2010-05-21 18:19:26 Angel: people leave jobs for reasons that are none of your business 2010-05-21 18:19:28 Scott: one gang at a time happydays 2010-05-21 18:19:30 Zorg: ...again zero, people are not going to be forced in to helping a gang they do not wish to be part of 2010-05-21 18:19:35 Pie: denying access to wl is a horrible idea 2010-05-21 18:19:36 Tibos: fair enough 2010-05-21 18:19:45 Zorg: Forcing them to stay until the WL reset would only make them if anything... try to sabotage your efforts 2010-05-21 18:19:47 zerocomman: just speaking up for my peeps 2010-05-21 18:19:53 Pie: we know 2010-05-21 18:19:53 Tibos: should we move on to our second point? 2010-05-21 18:19:54 Pie: xD 2010-05-21 18:19:58 bcfcespley: oh thats what i wanted to discuss, the stand storage system {XD} 2010-05-21 18:19:59 Zorg: yes 2010-05-21 18:20:01 Scott: Yeah 2010-05-21 18:20:06 Scott: before we go in circles again 2010-05-21 18:20:17 Tibos: this is a rather touchy subject as it involves a lot of coding 2010-05-21 18:20:26 Scott: heh 2010-05-21 18:20:35 Tibos: i recently started a thread in Main Forum regarding the creation of a 5th gang 2010-05-21 18:20:37 Pie: i can hear the answer already 2010-05-21 18:20:52 Zorg: The player count is lower than when gangs were implemented and you want a new gang? 2010-05-21 18:20:52 Tibos: this has received quite a lot of support from players and very little critiques 2010-05-21 18:21:26 Tibos: yes and the main argument is that it would enchance the joy of warfare :D 2010-05-21 18:21:36 Scott: WF would need a total rework 2010-05-21 18:21:36 Angel: you try to abolish gang hopping, and yet add another gang to hop too? 2010-05-21 18:21:41 darp: lol 2010-05-21 18:21:42 Zorg: I can give you plenty of critique if you wish. 2010-05-21 18:21:45 bcfcespley: {XD} 2010-05-21 18:21:45 Scott: as most maps are catered for 4 hq's 2010-05-21 18:21:45 Tibos: and it would increase the usefullness of the gang ranks 2010-05-21 18:21:47 Rotten: make it 20x20 for 5 gangs 2010-05-21 18:21:59 Tibos: sure, 2010-05-21 18:22:01 KevinMp: would a square make sense anymore at that point? 2010-05-21 18:22:09 Zorg: For a start... blue, red, yellow, green and purple for avatars 2010-05-21 18:22:13 KevinMp: new maps would have to be created 2010-05-21 18:22:15 Zorg: The only color left for a new gang is Orange 2010-05-21 18:22:20 Zorg: bcfc is turning in his grave at that idea 2010-05-21 18:22:23 Pie: purple for staff*? 2010-05-21 18:22:25 Tibos: Brown 2010-05-21 18:22:25 bcfcespley: lmao 2010-05-21 18:22:30 Angel: i don't want to see a 5th gang 2010-05-21 18:22:32 bcfcespley: shut up {XD} 2010-05-21 18:22:32 darp: Even were it a good idea (and it's not) before all the updates isn't really the time to be thinking about this. 2010-05-21 18:22:34 Zorg: Brown is just dark orange -_- 2010-05-21 18:22:39 zerocomman: so we don't have a 5th gang just because bcfc doesn't like orange :/ 2010-05-21 18:22:57 bcfcespley: he was joking... 2010-05-21 18:22:59 Zorg: No we dont have a 5th gang because Orange is very close to yellow and red. -_- 2010-05-21 18:23:04 darp: Zorg, put the hammer down. 2010-05-21 18:23:04 Scott: You dont have a 5th gang because we need to see a real reason for you to need one 2010-05-21 18:23:07 Zorg: But no thats not the only problem 2010-05-21 18:23:33 Zorg: For a start what do you think a 5th gang would address? what long term problems are going to be fixed by the number 5 instead of 4?... soon it would be populated by people I'm sure you'd dislike just as much 2010-05-21 18:23:49 Tibos: gang alliances 2010-05-21 18:23:49 Zorg: Soon it will have a council just like the other gangs and be no different... it wont be new it will just be ANOTHER gang 2010-05-21 18:23:54 Tibos: boredom in WL 2010-05-21 18:24:03 Angel: we don't want gang alliances 2010-05-21 18:24:05 bcfcespley: it would be like engl;and and immigrants... 2010-05-21 18:24:05 Scott: WL is catered for 4 HQ's 2010-05-21 18:24:07 darp: Only you can prevent forest fires... and gang alliances. 2010-05-21 18:24:08 bcfcespley: over crowded!! 2010-05-21 18:24:09 Zorg: Again not even close to long term solutions, in 6 months you'll just want a 6th gang 2010-05-21 18:24:16 Angel: If everyone played 1v1v1v1 problem is fixed 2010-05-21 18:24:18 KevinMp: it would only be a temporary fix, and thats not something we can take away as easily as put it in the system 2010-05-21 18:24:22 darp: And actually 6 gangs makes more sense than 5. :P 2010-05-21 18:24:29 Zorg: exactly you're talking about a temporary fix 2010-05-21 18:24:41 Zorg: one that will create more long term problems than anything 2010-05-21 18:24:48 KevinMp: once we put it in the system, you cant take it out 2010-05-21 18:24:50 bcfcespley: maps would have to be re made, new systems, new clothing, new weapons, new everything 2010-05-21 18:24:53 bcfcespley: i just dont see it {XD} 2010-05-21 18:24:53 Angel: then they'd go for lucky number 7 2010-05-21 18:24:55 Scott: the imbalence of gangs for the first few months :/ 2010-05-21 18:24:58 Angel: :P 2010-05-21 18:25:02 Scott: inbalance* 2010-05-21 18:25:03 KevinMp: people would want to remain in their 5th gang, and would get pissy if it was taken away 2010-05-21 18:25:05 Angel: 4 is enough 2010-05-21 18:25:16 Scott: people get pissy at anything 2010-05-21 18:25:17 Zorg: yes you're talking a ton of work for lots of people to make it happen all for a fix that will amuse people for a couple of months 2010-05-21 18:25:19 Zorg: and then be forgotten 2010-05-21 18:25:28 Scott: right 2010-05-21 18:25:34 Scott: ill say thats that idea wrapped up 2010-05-21 18:25:40 jonkers: Next idea? 2010-05-21 18:25:40 Tibos: hm.... 2010-05-21 18:25:42 Scott: DF any last points ? 2010-05-21 18:25:52 Tibos: fair enough 2010-05-21 18:26:06 zerocomman: yea, 2 more suggestions 2010-05-21 18:26:11 HappyDays: :x 2010-05-21 18:26:15 Zorg: Every change I implement is intended to be a permanent fix for a problem. 2010-05-21 18:26:24 jonkers: shh HD you will get your turn 2010-05-21 18:26:26 Zorg: ...apart from Spectral Items, that was just something shinny to distract people. 2010-05-21 18:26:33 Scott: XD 2010-05-21 18:26:39 Zorg: Ok are DF done? 2010-05-21 18:26:43 jonkers: no 2010-05-21 18:26:50 Scott: then hurry up please 2010-05-21 18:26:56 Tibos: Zero? 2010-05-21 18:27:01 Pie: we're running 90 mins.. 2010-05-21 18:27:02 Zorg: Due to the length of time this is taking you to type. 2010-05-21 18:27:05 Zorg: I'm gonna say no -_- 2010-05-21 18:27:08 Scott: TC 2010-05-21 18:27:11 Scott: any points 2010-05-21 18:27:20 Scott: ... 2010-05-21 18:27:27 Zorg: If it takes you that long to explain it, I'm not implementing it lol 2010-05-21 18:27:27 Pascal: one 2010-05-21 18:27:35 Pascal: im lagging :x 2010-05-21 18:27:39 Scott: great 2010-05-21 18:27:41 zerocomman: i was waiting for you to pay attention rather than continue blabbing 2010-05-21 18:27:42 Zorg: and I'm bored 2010-05-21 18:27:43 007Ben: ive got some too :P 2010-05-21 18:27:48 Ross: yeah can we have honours banners for gang loyalty? 2010-05-21 18:27:51 Pascal: say it ben 2010-05-21 18:27:52 Scott: No. 2010-05-21 18:27:54 Zorg: I was sitting here for 2 minutes waiting for you to type it dude 2010-05-21 18:28:10 zerocomman: ability to counteract radiance 2010-05-21 18:28:20 zerocomman: and lastly, staff favor should not benefit combat 2010-05-21 18:28:29 Angel: not your turn zero 2010-05-21 18:28:34 Zorg: this kind of stuff can go in the suggestions forum. 2010-05-21 18:28:35 Scott: +3 and more is really rare 2010-05-21 18:28:37 Zorg: :/ 2010-05-21 18:28:43 007Ben: i really dont see the point of needing to ask permission to attack people with the new attack system. and with free hunting everyone would get to Av in no-time 2010-05-21 18:28:51 Scott: ask.. permission ? 2010-05-21 18:28:56 Zorg: ^- thats more like the stuff i wanted to hear 2010-05-21 18:29:00 Zorg: Not just suggestion forum stuff 2010-05-21 18:29:08 007Ben: like they need to acceot in the duel 2010-05-21 18:29:12 Scott: oh yeah 2010-05-21 18:29:19 Scott: sorry my mind is in the old system XD 2010-05-21 18:29:22 Zorg: The new combat system requires both sides of the fight to be active as it requires the selection of abilities.... 2010-05-21 18:29:28 007Ben: like this is an assassin game, i dont need to ask to attack someone :P 2010-05-21 18:29:31 Food: Thanks ben, stealing my one thing I had in mind. *cries* 2010-05-21 18:29:39 SlickVic: for all levels? 2010-05-21 18:29:41 007Ben: lol 2010-05-21 18:30:14 Zorg: So the alternative would be you attack people who are ultimately defenceless...offline even... which is pointless. 2010-05-21 18:30:24 Scott: same system we have now.. 2010-05-21 18:30:43 Scott: so really wed just be putting new GFx and coding but keeping the old system 2010-05-21 18:30:53 Food: Wondering, can't we have a duel system and a PVP system like we have now? 2010-05-21 18:30:54 Tibos: i think we really need to see it in action before we can criticize it 2010-05-21 18:30:56 Pascal: isn't that the same hunting will going to be then? 2010-05-21 18:30:56 SlickVic: so then hunting would be the main leveling system then? 2010-05-21 18:30:58 Zorg: Basically the alternative for someone online would be a pop up that interupted whatever you're doing saying... you're being attacked now you must go to the attack screen and defend yourself. 2010-05-21 18:31:25 Pie: can me and Scott have a duel on Dev? 2010-05-21 18:31:26 007Ben: or the dueling system could be a way to fight for c's? 2010-05-21 18:31:34 007Ben: like a bet 2010-05-21 18:31:36 zerocomman: the sooner you roll this out on dev, the sooner we can actually give you valid feedback 2010-05-21 18:31:42 Zorg: The duel page is a page that says "Insert duel page here." Pie -_- 2010-05-21 18:31:50 Ross: Lol 2010-05-21 18:31:53 Pie: i'm not gonna try, Zorg... xD 2010-05-21 18:31:56 Pie: last time i got stuck -.- 2010-05-21 18:32:02 jonkers: Do we have a time frame for this on dev? 2010-05-21 18:32:13 Zorg: The point is Hive fighting is pointless, the only time it is remotely even useful in the current system is sniping people as they run to heal. 2010-05-21 18:32:35 Zorg: Which will be totally irralevent in the new system anyway, because you'll have players heavily specialized as Medics out in warfare with you anyway. 2010-05-21 18:32:44 KevinMp: 8) 2010-05-21 18:32:52 Scott: ok 2010-05-21 18:32:59 Scott: done? 2010-05-21 18:33:07 KevinMp: nooo BoD's turn :x 2010-05-21 18:33:07 bcfcespley: will we be able to switch between them or once we pick we have to stay as that speciality? 2010-05-21 18:33:08 Zorg: The new system is still being designed. 2010-05-21 18:33:10 Food: I need high pvp, I will be lost without it. :( 2010-05-21 18:33:10 Pie: hive fighting also gains you exp 2010-05-21 18:33:11 Pie: xD 2010-05-21 18:33:14 Food: Hive* 2010-05-21 18:33:20 Zorg: But it will come together in a way that makes sense, and you'll understand why fighting in the hive would be pointless. 2010-05-21 18:33:24 KevinMp: bcfcespley i think so 2010-05-21 18:33:29 Food: Take my brother instead of PVP! 2010-05-21 18:33:38 Scott: We dont want him 2010-05-21 18:33:41 Food: Gah 2010-05-21 18:33:44 007Ben: {XD} 2010-05-21 18:33:48 Scott: Right 2010-05-21 18:33:50 darp: We didn't address DF's last two points. 2010-05-21 18:33:53 Zorg: I understand the desire to kill players who do not wish to fight you.... 2010-05-21 18:33:59 KevinMp: :P 2010-05-21 18:34:02 Angel: It wasn't DF's turn 2010-05-21 18:34:05 Angel: :P 2010-05-21 18:34:05 Scott: the suggestion forum points ? 2010-05-21 18:34:05 Zorg: Thats why I play on PvP servers in every MMO I ever played. 2010-05-21 18:34:17 Zorg: But in Legacy death is meaningless anyway for the most part. 2010-05-21 18:34:21 zerocomman: our suggestions weren't worthy darp 2010-05-21 18:34:32 Scott: right 2010-05-21 18:34:38 zerocomman: mostly cuz i'm the one doing the suggesting :p 2010-05-21 18:34:41 Zorg: ability to counteract radiance... no 2010-05-21 18:34:56 Zorg: as radiance is not a combat advantage it just gives someone time to sit and do nothing 2010-05-21 18:34:58 bcfcespley: radiance removing items, yes :P 2010-05-21 18:35:00 Zorg: i see no need to counteract it 2010-05-21 18:35:02 jonkers: expo removing items ? 2010-05-21 18:35:09 Zorg: plus it kind of ruins the point of it 2010-05-21 18:35:17 jonkers: even though you were working on them a year ago? 2010-05-21 18:35:21 Scott: expo items are in the tunnel atm 2010-05-21 18:35:27 Scott: havnt started planning for them 2010-05-21 18:35:29 Zorg: staff favor effecting combat... kind of agree, but it will have very little effect in the new combat system anyway 2010-05-21 18:35:41 Food: We were suppose to get exposure removing items as per last LegCon, Someone dropped the ball. *Blames Scott* 2010-05-21 18:35:42 Zorg: I'm waiting for bcfc to draw them for me. 2010-05-21 18:35:44 zerocomman: so no harm getting rid of these benefits in the meantime 2010-05-21 18:35:45 Risque: Expo removing items were discussed at the last LegCon :/ 2010-05-21 18:35:49 bcfcespley: you what 2010-05-21 18:35:54 bcfcespley: i drew you one ages ago lol 2010-05-21 18:35:59 Zorg: I asked you like 5 months ago dude, you never sent them! 2010-05-21 18:36:03 bcfcespley: yes i did" 2010-05-21 18:36:05 Scott: You two 2010-05-21 18:36:07 Scott: handbags away 2010-05-21 18:36:09 bcfcespley: it was a pill half silver 2010-05-21 18:36:10 Zorg: Never arrived at my end 2010-05-21 18:36:13 jonkers: I would get fae to :P 2010-05-21 18:36:13 Ross: the count attack to radiance is waiting 1 minute 2010-05-21 18:36:13 Scott: SHUT UP 2010-05-21 18:36:14 Ross: {XD} 2010-05-21 18:36:16 Tibos: send them again tonight and add them tomorrow 2010-05-21 18:36:19 Tibos: everyone is happy 2010-05-21 18:36:20 Zorg: Who did you sent it to? cause it wasn't me? 2010-05-21 18:36:26 Zorg: *send 2010-05-21 18:36:28 bcfcespley: it was and you even commented on it lol 2010-05-21 18:36:36 bcfcespley: id re send it but my old laptop blew up {XD} 2010-05-21 18:36:41 Scott: Dont drop it then 2010-05-21 18:36:43 Tibos: and get Legacy Affairs to see who's fault it is 2010-05-21 18:36:43 Pascal: wasteland rewards for gang members instead of just a trophy, based on their total wasteland points? 2010-05-21 18:36:43 Scott: doofus 2010-05-21 18:36:45 Zorg: redraw it 2010-05-21 18:36:56 darp: Hahaha 2010-05-21 18:36:57 bcfcespley: lol 2010-05-21 18:36:58 Scott: WL rewards ... 2010-05-21 18:36:59 bcfcespley: nice 2010-05-21 18:37:06 Zorg: Discussed when WL was introduced, declined. 2010-05-21 18:37:11 KevinMp: is this still "DF's Ideas" -_- 2010-05-21 18:37:18 jonkers: yes 2010-05-21 18:37:28 Pie: i thought this was TC 2010-05-21 18:37:32 Tibos: we are done i think 2010-05-21 18:37:33 Food: {xd} 2010-05-21 18:37:33 Zorg: No just zero was throwing his toys out of the pram cause I didn't answer him 2010-05-21 18:37:37 Scott: Her* 2010-05-21 18:37:43 jonkers: Zero is a she darp :) 2010-05-21 18:37:48 jonkers: darp 2010-05-21 18:37:52 jonkers: zorg 2010-05-21 18:37:53 Pie: everybody is a guy in here.. pssh 2010-05-21 18:37:53 Zorg: o.O 2010-05-21 18:37:54 zerocomman: i'm a she zorg 2010-05-21 18:38:00 darp: I am aware. 2010-05-21 18:38:04 Scott: Anyway 2010-05-21 18:38:07 Scott: BoD 2010-05-21 18:38:10 Scott: any points 2010-05-21 18:38:11 darp: Girls have innies. 2010-05-21 18:38:18 KevinMp: yes! someone brought something up to me 2010-05-21 18:38:22 Pascal: next 2010-05-21 18:38:22 Scott: Great. 2010-05-21 18:38:30 Scott: XD 2010-05-21 18:38:30 KevinMp: this player says he dropped a bunch of credits into hunting 2010-05-21 18:38:30 Scott: would you like to tell us what 2010-05-21 18:38:35 Pascal: gang 2010-05-21 18:38:37 Scott: oh god 2010-05-21 18:38:44 KevinMp: the new updates mean people will get avatar for free? 2010-05-21 18:38:48 Scott: is this going to be a bug report int he form of a question 2010-05-21 18:38:49 Zorg: cool story, tell it again 2010-05-21 18:38:50 KevinMp: would this person get this money back? 2010-05-21 18:38:56 Pie: lol 2010-05-21 18:39:01 Pascal: no tc is done 2010-05-21 18:39:02 Pascal: XD 2010-05-21 18:39:16 Zorg: yeah I'm going to refund 4 years of hunting, tell him to expect a bajillion credits in the mail shortly 2010-05-21 18:39:23 Scott: XD 2010-05-21 18:39:24 bcfcespley: {XD} 2010-05-21 18:39:24 Risque: rofl 2010-05-21 18:39:25 KevinMp: -_- thank you zorg lmao 2010-05-21 18:39:27 Tibos: {xd} 2010-05-21 18:39:32 jonkers: woop 2010-05-21 18:39:33 KevinMp: so hunting will cost money in the new system then? 2010-05-21 18:39:34 Zorg: There are people who leveled before hunting existed 2010-05-21 18:39:39 Zorg: there are people who leveled after it was added 2010-05-21 18:39:47 Scott: ok 2010-05-21 18:39:47 Zorg: There are people who leveled before gangs existed so could attack anyone 2010-05-21 18:39:55 Zorg: during midnight revives... the game changes... leveling changes 2010-05-21 18:40:01 Zorg: It is not my intention to make anything easier or cheaper 2010-05-21 18:40:09 Zorg: and I will make the changes needed to balance it to the best of my ability 2010-05-21 18:40:24 KevinMp: so hunting, if its still in the game, will continue to cost money? 2010-05-21 18:40:28 Scott: this is going to be a long blog 2010-05-21 18:40:29 Zorg: I like the current amount of time it takes to get to Avatar and have no intention of decreasing it 2010-05-21 18:40:36 Scott: kevinmp 2010-05-21 18:40:36 Ross: to be fair zorg 2010-05-21 18:40:42 Scott: im sure that has been answered ina blog 2010-05-21 18:40:46 Zorg: Hunting will be free, costs will be introduced in different areas 2010-05-21 18:40:48 Ross: you mae things easier when you allowed the transfers of credits and items legally.... 2010-05-21 18:40:53 Ross: made* 2010-05-21 18:40:54 KevinMp: allright im all good then 2010-05-21 18:40:58 darp: The ones I am aware of, LA and COE, were addressed. 2010-05-21 18:41:10 Zorg: Hunting is just taking the place of player search > attack player 2010-05-21 18:41:43 Zorg: as that system sucks 2010-05-21 18:41:48 Scott: ok 2010-05-21 18:41:54 Scott: anymore points BoD? 2010-05-21 18:41:59 Angel: since this is dragging on can i make my point as it is relevant to this particular topic? 2010-05-21 18:42:01 Angel: :P 2010-05-21 18:42:05 Scott: go for it 2010-05-21 18:42:08 Food: How dare you insult PVP *Votes to kill Zorg in his sleep* 2010-05-21 18:42:13 Angel: So with the new dual system, how will it work within the wl, do you enter a square and wait for someone to 'accept' Killing somebody offline isn't stupid when they are taking your squares now is it? so why should they get rewarded being offline, it should 2010-05-21 18:42:25 Angel: be like an off guard type thing, a premptive strike of sorts 2010-05-21 18:42:27 Ross: ... 2010-05-21 18:42:34 Tibos: duels are hive only 2010-05-21 18:42:37 Ross: why on earth would it apply to the WL? 2010-05-21 18:42:39 Pie: ... 2010-05-21 18:42:41 Ross: think before you type -_- 2010-05-21 18:42:42 Zorg: Ok other people are answering this one for me :D 2010-05-21 18:42:46 jonkers: isnt zorg playing with roaming guards? 2010-05-21 18:42:50 Scott: yeah 2010-05-21 18:42:53 Angel: the game is changing, but what about wl? 2010-05-21 18:42:54 Pie: you don't have to accept to fight in the wl 2010-05-21 18:42:57 Scott: we're calling them evil little buggers 2010-05-21 18:43:01 Pie: you just.. fight.. 2010-05-21 18:43:04 Pie: and if they're not there 2010-05-21 18:43:07 Pie: you get no resistance 2010-05-21 18:43:08 Angel: is it remaining the same? 2010-05-21 18:43:09 Pascal: you die 2010-05-21 18:43:14 jonkers: Care to explain more about these guards? 2010-05-21 18:43:16 Zorg: WF is being turned in to one giant AJAX / Javascript display that will incorporate both combat and the current warfare stuff.... you'll never changes pages to fight multiple people in your location / use abilities / etc 2010-05-21 18:43:17 KevinMp: so afk = death :O 2010-05-21 18:43:19 Scott: WF is being redone next year i would imagine 2010-05-21 18:43:22 SlickVic: afk will be suicide 2010-05-21 18:43:29 SlickVic: I like it 2010-05-21 18:43:34 KevinMp: :P 2010-05-21 18:43:39 Zorg: Yeah the idea of guards 2010-05-21 18:43:59 Zorg: Is to make them like players only with special unique abilities that wander around 2010-05-21 18:44:14 Zorg: So your HQ may be patrolled by a big boss style NPC with cool abilities that takes a few people to kill 2010-05-21 18:44:24 Zorg: Your outer borders may be patrolled by simpler NPCs that patrol in packs 2010-05-21 18:44:24 KevinMp: so will non avs b able to kill afk avatars then? :O 2010-05-21 18:44:27 Scott: Goes well with a radar ability 2010-05-21 18:44:28 Scott: :P 2010-05-21 18:44:33 jonkers: are you planning changes to the maps? 2010-05-21 18:44:35 Scott: anyone afk 2010-05-21 18:44:38 Zorg: And enemy territory may even be entered by Scout NPCs that infilitrate and attack unsuspecting players. 2010-05-21 18:44:41 Scott: will be pretty much jumped by guards 2010-05-21 18:44:44 Scott: if players dont get them 2010-05-21 18:44:46 Zorg: Thats the grand scope, how it will actually turn out is unknown right now 2010-05-21 18:44:59 Scott: right 2010-05-21 18:45:01 Zorg: No changed planned to the maps right now 2010-05-21 18:45:04 Zorg: *changes 2010-05-21 18:45:08 Angel: but what if the person was not afk, just a slower speed internet? 2010-05-21 18:45:18 Zorg: Depends how slow :/ 2010-05-21 18:45:20 Scott: then we ban dialup XD 2010-05-21 18:45:42 Angel: it would give an unfair advantage if self defense is gone 2010-05-21 18:45:48 Tibos: once the page is loaded (one page!!!), the other transfers should be extra small 2010-05-21 18:45:54 Zorg: The combat system will be automated... kind of, you'll attack every 5 seconds or so and pick abilities in advance. So it's not like click as fast as you can. 2010-05-21 18:46:03 bcfcespley: ahh 2010-05-21 18:46:12 Angel: that makes more sense 2010-05-21 18:46:17 Angel: ok i'm done 2010-05-21 18:46:20 Scott: sounds like final fantasy :P 2010-05-21 18:46:29 darp: I'm done. 2010-05-21 18:46:29 Angel: yeah :P 2010-05-21 18:46:32 Scott: ok 2010-05-21 18:46:33 Scott: OC 2010-05-21 18:46:36 bcfcespley: i prefer killing people in 2 seconds {XD} 2010-05-21 18:46:37 Scott: last points please 2010-05-21 18:46:37 Pascal: souds like pokemon 2010-05-21 18:46:38 Food: I'll start. 2010-05-21 18:46:39 Zorg: http://dev.legacy-game.net/sandbox/test.htm 2010-05-21 18:46:44 Zorg: That's what the blue bar is on that 2010-05-21 18:46:50 Food: First off, Bcfc..rank 10 items now please. 2010-05-21 18:46:51 Pascal: *sounds 2010-05-21 18:46:53 KevinMp: :O 2010-05-21 18:46:54 Zorg: The timer that will auto-attack for you... or use abilities you decide on in advance 2010-05-21 18:47:04 Food: Seond, we should consider drops from roaming guards in WL! 2010-05-21 18:47:23 Zorg: So you click the head shot ability and it is executed at the end of that bar instead of your auto-attack 2010-05-21 18:47:39 Angel: that works :) 2010-05-21 18:47:42 Zorg: Yes they would have drops, especially each gangs "boss npc" that patrols their HQ 2010-05-21 18:48:00 Food: Alright, HD has a few things to adress, HD please. 2010-05-21 18:48:07 Scott: HAPPYDAYS 2010-05-21 18:48:15 HappyDays: FUNDING 2010-05-21 18:48:18 HappyDays: ban it 2010-05-21 18:48:37 Zorg: Only well trained Rogues will be anywhere near enemy HQs alone if their boss NPC is alive. 2010-05-21 18:48:44 Scott: by funding 2010-05-21 18:48:49 Scott: do you mean same ip transfers? 2010-05-21 18:48:58 Scott: people quitting and leaving credits? 2010-05-21 18:49:01 Zorg: I think he means departure gifts? 2010-05-21 18:49:04 HappyDays: As in players getting large tranfers of credits 2010-05-21 18:49:10 Scott: but what category 2010-05-21 18:49:12 Zorg: Ok guess not 2010-05-21 18:49:14 Scott: we can ban everything :s 2010-05-21 18:49:17 Scott: cant* 2010-05-21 18:49:21 HappyDays: Or pricy items 2010-05-21 18:49:28 HappyDays: For examply a free rail gun 2010-05-21 18:49:29 Rotten: like medo 2010-05-21 18:49:30 jonkers: side question zorg will a gang be able to tell if another gangs boss NPC is alive/dead? 2010-05-21 18:49:35 HappyDays: And going away gifts 2010-05-21 18:49:41 Risque: What do you consider a large transfer of credits? 2010-05-21 18:49:44 HappyDays: Also large insane loans 2010-05-21 18:49:46 Scott: problem with away girfts is 2010-05-21 18:49:50 Scott: you can say yes ban them 2010-05-21 18:49:50 Food: I think we should save this for a good CoE debate, if we discuss funding here all hell will break loose. 2010-05-21 18:49:54 Zorg: With glance or wandering around cloaked jonkers 2010-05-21 18:49:55 Scott: getting those items is another story 2010-05-21 18:49:55 HappyDays: that would take years to pay off should be banned 2010-05-21 18:50:08 Scott: Right 2010-05-21 18:50:14 Zorg: Although boss npcs may periodically scan their area >:) 2010-05-21 18:50:22 Risque: Does OC have the floor or not? O.o 2010-05-21 18:50:27 HappyDays: ;/ 2010-05-21 18:50:27 jonkers: no 2010-05-21 18:50:36 bcfcespley: i know yeah 2010-05-21 18:50:36 Scott: We're on transfers atm 2010-05-21 18:50:42 Scott: its hard to say 2010-05-21 18:50:43 Zorg: Yeah HappyDays extreme left wing views can be discussed in the Elders forum 2010-05-21 18:50:54 HappyDays: lol thanks zorg {xd} 2010-05-21 18:50:56 Scott: thats best 2010-05-21 18:50:58 HappyDays: but you love me ;p 2010-05-21 18:50:59 Scott: btw zorg 2010-05-21 18:51:03 Tibos: when can we submit the elder decision to you? 2010-05-21 18:51:03 Zorg: Personally I think all your ideas are insane. >.< 2010-05-21 18:51:08 Scott: when elders is redone can we have a clean forum? 2010-05-21 18:51:09 HappyDays: my second point coding gang banks 2010-05-21 18:51:12 bcfcespley: When will storage be user friendly?!?! 2010-05-21 18:51:22 HappyDays: and setting maz amount of spending monthly 2010-05-21 18:51:23 Scott: this is legacy bcfc :P 2010-05-21 18:51:27 HappyDays: *max 2010-05-21 18:51:28 Zorg: It is user friendly to people who dont have a million items. 2010-05-21 18:51:32 HappyDays: to create strategy 2010-05-21 18:51:35 Scott: lol 2010-05-21 18:51:44 Scott: 23:50:53 [Scott] when elders is redone can we have a clean forum? 2010-05-21 18:51:45 HappyDays: that way you have to budget 2010-05-21 18:51:55 Ross: zorg honours banner for gang loyalty? :D 2010-05-21 18:51:58 Scott: Ross 2010-05-21 18:51:59 Zorg: sure 2010-05-21 18:52:01 HappyDays: and everything is more transparent 2010-05-21 18:52:02 bcfcespley: so you created storage intending people to add like 6 items? 2010-05-21 18:52:03 Scott: No 2010-05-21 18:52:06 Zorg: to clean forum not banner lol 2010-05-21 18:52:12 Scott: Ok 2010-05-21 18:52:21 Scott: Any last points or can i wrap up ? 2010-05-21 18:52:23 Zorg: I'll fix it bcfc, it's just not high on my list of stuff to do 2010-05-21 18:52:24 zerocomman: bcfc you are the outlier 2010-05-21 18:52:34 Zorg: If you want to move an item 100 places to the left just message me and I'll do it for you lol 2010-05-21 18:52:34 Food: Risque, anything to add? 2010-05-21 18:52:43 bcfcespley: lol {XD} 2010-05-21 18:52:47 Risque: We didn't get an answer on the rank 10 items 2010-05-21 18:52:49 bcfcespley: yeah 360 clicks for 3 items -_- 2010-05-21 18:52:51 Scott: well 2010-05-21 18:52:53 Scott: right now 2010-05-21 18:52:58 Scott: bcfc i hae a question 2010-05-21 18:53:05 Scott: why does one gang have a wf trophie 2010-05-21 18:53:08 Scott: and no others do :O 2010-05-21 18:53:15 Food: Yeah, WHY bcfc. 2010-05-21 18:53:17 Zorg: yeah i dont get that accessory item 2010-05-21 18:53:18 Tibos: DF > others? {xd} 2010-05-21 18:53:19 Food: Hater 2010-05-21 18:53:23 bcfcespley: no 2010-05-21 18:53:28 Scott: I want to remove it :P 2010-05-21 18:53:34 bcfcespley: its because i felt like DF deserved it... 2010-05-21 18:53:40 Tibos: <3 2010-05-21 18:53:40 Zorg: If you touch anything in graphics Scott I'll slap you :P 2010-05-21 18:53:40 bcfcespley: and to prove im not biased :P 2010-05-21 18:53:40 Scott: eh 2010-05-21 18:53:51 Scott: didnt say anything about your design, old man 2010-05-21 18:54:03 bcfcespley: if TC win WL like 3 or 4 times, ill add it for them 2010-05-21 18:54:04 Zorg: I gave graphics control to Lucas and was like... there now if you ever touch any of it I'll kill you :D 2010-05-21 18:54:04 KevinMp: :O burn! xD 2010-05-21 18:54:13 Scott: XD 2010-05-21 18:54:21 Scott: I use it for uploading staff designs tbh 2010-05-21 18:54:21 bcfcespley: *goes and deleted EVERYTHING* 2010-05-21 18:54:24 Food: Rank 10 items? 2010-05-21 18:54:35 Scott: im sure zorg would go bitchtastic on your ass and account 2010-05-21 18:54:39 Zorg: anyway enough rambling 2010-05-21 18:54:44 Zorg: OC questions 2010-05-21 18:54:47 bcfcespley: Rank 10's.. 2010-05-21 18:54:53 Scott: bcfc can answer this 2010-05-21 18:55:03 bcfcespley: who got back to me? {XD} 2010-05-21 18:55:03 Scott: mr. graphics admin. 2010-05-21 18:55:05 bcfcespley: i know DF did... 2010-05-21 18:55:19 Scott: bcfc 2010-05-21 18:55:23 Scott: relaunch in main 2010-05-21 18:55:26 Angel: you could make more character designs for specific gang roles 2010-05-21 18:55:27 Scott: best option :) 2010-05-21 18:55:38 bcfcespley: i prefer making items atm to be honest =] 2010-05-21 18:55:40 Food: We've been waiting for rank 10 and 18 items for a long time, just curious on how these are coming? 2010-05-21 18:55:46 Angel: War Advisor could have a specific rank 14 look only available to them 2010-05-21 18:55:48 Scott: well 2010-05-21 18:55:50 bcfcespley: oh yeah rank 18's too 2010-05-21 18:55:54 KevinMp: :O zorg i have a quick question to ask before we go. it can wait though 2010-05-21 18:56:04 Scott: shoot it now kevin before i wrap up 2010-05-21 18:56:10 Scott: ...sounds oddly wrong 2010-05-21 18:56:14 Tibos: i don't see how rank 10 items can be a good idea.... 2010-05-21 18:56:19 KevinMp: back to the boss npcs. who gets the drop if multiple people attack it? 2010-05-21 18:56:30 Tibos: it would only support mass favoring so the gang can benefit from them 2010-05-21 18:56:30 Zorg: no idea 2010-05-21 18:56:36 Angel: so that people of leadership look like leadership if they choose to be 2010-05-21 18:56:36 Food: I have another thing to add if I may. 2010-05-21 18:56:40 Risque: Stop beating around the bush on the rank 10/18 items. We still dont' have an answer O.o 2010-05-21 18:56:41 KevinMp: still in development then? :O 2010-05-21 18:56:42 Zorg: that's all just concept ideas, it is in no way designed yet 2010-05-21 18:56:48 KevinMp: ok gotcha ty 2010-05-21 18:56:51 Scott: im guessing we have a wow vote system :P 2010-05-21 18:56:53 Scott: right 2010-05-21 18:57:01 bcfcespley: the answer is, i cant add one gangs, so until all 4 get back to me, no one gets anything :/ 2010-05-21 18:57:05 Scott: I'll wrap this up :D 2010-05-21 18:57:40 Scott: Thank you for attending another successfull LegCon, I'd liek to thank gangs for being able to get the reps in a short amount of time and for staff help with this session. 2010-05-21 18:57:50 Zorg: Ok I'll get some changes done tomorrow, to Elders and such 2010-05-21 18:57:55 Scott: I'll post the review tomorrow but i'll get to work on elders tonight 2010-05-21 18:57:59 Pie: it's tomorrow in 2 minutes. 2010-05-21 18:58:07 HappyDays: I am going to make some threads in elders 2010-05-21 18:58:07 Scott: XD anyway 2010-05-21 18:58:09 Pie: be quick, Scott 2010-05-21 18:58:10 HappyDays: strolls off 2010-05-21 18:58:12 HappyDays: :p 2010-05-21 18:58:13 KevinMp: ok im out then. have a good one 2010-05-21 18:58:20 Scott: Zorg will remove your green status soon 2010-05-21 18:58:22 KevinMp: gl with all the new updates zorgy :O 2010-05-21 18:58:25 Zorg: Special thanks to Lucas for attending -_- 2010-05-21 18:58:27 Scott: Thank you again! 2010-05-21 18:58:30 Food: I still have one point, Gang chat continues to be an Issue. 2010-05-21 18:58:31 bcfcespley: {XD} 2010-05-21 18:58:33 Pie: Thanks Lucas 2010-05-21 18:58:34 HappyDays: sips beer 2010-05-21 18:58:35 Scott: LegCon OVER! Finish: 2010-05-21 18:58:35

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 Date: 21st May 2010<br>
 With: N/A<br>
-[[Outcasts|OC Reps]]: Food, Risque, Happydays and Bcfcespley<br>
+[[Outcasts|OC Reps]]: Food, Risque, SlickVic and Bcfcespley<br>
 [[Blade of Dawn|BoD Reps]]: Darp, Korin, Angel and KevinMP<br>
-[[The Chapter|TC Reps]]: Bernard721, Pascal, Tzirn, and Spanky <br>
+[[The Chapter|TC Reps]]: Bernard721, Pascal, 007Ben, and Spanky <br>
 [[Dark Flame|DF Reps]]: Tibos, Jonkers, Rotten and Zerocomman<br>
 [[Chamber of Elders|Elder Reps]]: Ross, Tibos, Food and Darp
@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 {| class="graybox" width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="8" |
 | width="100%" class="graybox" |
-<span class="boxtitle">Start: N/A</span><br>
+<span class="boxtitle">Start:2010-05-21 17:00:15</span><br>
+-05-21 17:00:15  Zorg: Ok chat is going moderated
-<span class="boxtitle">Finish: N/A</span><br>
+-05-21 17:00:17  Scott: :P
+-05-21 17:00:17  turdus: long left to hommie bullspit
+-05-21 17:00:19  Seraphim: noooo
+-05-21 17:00:22  Seraphim: not moderation
+-05-21 17:00:22  Altiar: noooo
+-05-21 17:00:25  Bernard721: Muteeeeedd. :D
+-05-21 17:00:26  Scott: Right
+-05-21 17:00:30  Zorg: Ok who isn't a rep who needs to be?
+-05-21 17:00:35  Food: Slickvic.
+-05-21 17:00:36  bcfcespley: me
+-05-21 17:00:37  Bernard721: 007Ben for TC.
+-05-21 17:00:39  Pascal: oo7ben
+-05-21 17:00:43  KevinMp: bcf u r
+-05-21 17:00:45  KevinMp: ur green
+-05-21 17:00:46  bcfcespley: oh lol
+-05-21 17:00:50  bcfcespley: it told me i couldnt speak
+-05-21 17:00:50  Zorg: 007ben and slickvic, anyone else?
+-05-21 17:01:07  Korin: hmm
+-05-21 17:01:25  Zorg: slickvic and 007ben relogin to chat please
+-05-21 17:01:45  KevinMp: thar ya go ;)
+-05-21 17:01:57  Zorg: ok everyone got all their reps?
+-05-21 17:02:02  Pascal: yup
+-05-21 17:02:03  Rotten: Yes sir
+-05-21 17:02:05  Scott: hmm
+-05-21 17:02:07  Ross: ya
+-05-21 17:02:09  Risque: Yes
+-05-21 17:02:11  KevinMp: angel is afk :/
+-05-21 17:02:12  Bernard721: TC, drop me a PM if you have any point, and I'll try and add it to the conversation
+-05-21 17:02:14  Scott: Right
+-05-21 17:02:21  Tibos: same here, DF :P
+-05-21 17:02:25  Scott: Can reps like.. be quiet for a few seconds
+-05-21 17:02:26  Zorg: Ok set your chat to your gang color, if you're an elder use your gang color, if you're a rogue use white
+-05-21 17:02:29  KevinMp: we have 2 backups. one is offline, and 1 isnt responding
+-05-21 17:02:38  Scott: Zorg Rogue rep is Pie :P
+-05-21 17:02:46  Zorg: ....?
+-05-21 17:02:48  bcfcespley: im colourblind XD
+-05-21 17:02:50  Zorg: Pie is a staff rep -_-
+-05-21 17:02:55  Ross: Lol
+-05-21 17:03:00  Angel: Leave me alone kevin -_-
+-05-21 17:03:01  Bernard721: Organizational fail
+-05-21 17:03:02  Tibos: we fail at rogue reps then
+-05-21 17:03:03  Scott: He's also.. the rogue rep :D
+-05-21 17:03:13  Zorg: whatever
+-05-21 17:03:20  KevinMp: nvm were all good :d
+-05-21 17:03:27  Scott: Right
+-05-21 17:03:35  Scott: Reps be quiet for a few mins :P
+-05-21 17:03:38  Bernard721: shoot dropped some bud in my keyboard
+-05-21 17:03:42  KevinMp: WHAT!?!?!
+-05-21 17:03:45  Zorg: Nobody cares.
+-05-21 17:03:45  KevinMp: lol allright
+-05-21 17:03:46  Scott: by that i mean shut up
+-05-21 17:03:50  Ross: Lmao
+-05-21 17:03:57  bcfcespley: can we just start
+-05-21 17:04:00  Zorg: Ok will be removing rep status from those who speak...
+-05-21 17:04:10  Zorg: If that's not clear enough by the instructions given twice already.
+-05-21 17:04:31  Scott: Right, Welcome to the second LegCon. This second meeting will be hosted by Lucas, myself and Zorg.
+-05-21 17:04:50  Scott: The room is set to moderated so if you need to make a point PM your chosen gang reps by double clciking their names.
+-05-21 17:05:04  Scott: Can all gang reps please use your gang colours to avoid confusion
+-05-21 17:05:26  Scott: All input will be noted down and tomorrow the logs/review of the meeting will be posted.
+-05-21 17:05:32  Scott: Take it away Zorg :P
+-05-21 17:05:51  Zorg: Ok this will be a structured chat, not a free-for-all... so if it isn't constructive I dont want to hear it.
+-05-21 17:06:15  Zorg: How many elder reps do we have here?
+-05-21 17:06:20  Food: All 4.
+-05-21 17:06:23  Ross: 4
+-05-21 17:06:29  Zorg: hmm ok
+-05-21 17:06:30  KevinMp: BoD is... checking. hold on
+-05-21 17:06:38  Zorg: Well first the Elders and their forum.
+-05-21 17:06:41  KevinMp: we have 4. all good :D
+-05-21 17:07:08  Zorg: The initial idea behind this was a place I could get feedback from people without getting opinions of new players or players of lesser importance.... if that's not too offensive :D
+-05-21 17:07:15  Zorg: However it didn't get used much.
+-05-21 17:07:19  Zorg: So I shut it down.
+-05-21 17:07:32  Zorg: Then Deeg convinced me to re-open it with him running it.
+-05-21 17:07:41  Zorg: Then Deeg left... he is kind of back now but still.
+-05-21 17:07:50  Zorg: So it got abandoned for a while, then Scott was put in charge of it.
+-05-21 17:07:59  Zorg: It now seems to just be there... with no real purpose.
+-05-21 17:08:30  Zorg: So I want to know what people think about it, whether it should remain or be removed again.
+-05-21 17:08:43  darp: At one point, the forum was put forth as a way to discuss suggestions and game updates and the like.
+-05-21 17:08:46  KevinMp: we should keep it up :O
+-05-21 17:08:57  bcfcespley: We should keep it, if you actually have some input zorg
+-05-21 17:09:04  darp: If the estions forum is player driven, I think COE would do better with direct input from you, Zorg.
+-05-21 17:09:12  jonkers: To me it sounds like the hall of gods but for older players
+-05-21 17:09:18  Scott: Of course if kept open the members will be re-worked so every member has recently logged in  so we dont have our current stauts of inactive elders.
+-05-21 17:09:19  darp: So that we aren't discussing things that you don't like or won't want implemented.
+-05-21 17:09:21  Ross: First of all, I'd like to thank Scott and the staff, for arranging this semester
+-05-21 17:09:23  Zorg: It was removed when the council forum was added with the gang system, as that was supposed to take its place.
+-05-21 17:09:34  Risque: And what about the Senate forum?
+-05-21 17:09:40  Bernard721: Well just like the Avatar and Senate, its apparently not being used.. but the occasional thread and discussion is worth it
+-05-21 17:09:42  KevinMp: imo, all new updates should go through it
+-05-21 17:09:47  Pie: The senate is junk.
+-05-21 17:09:52  Risque: Then why have it?
+-05-21 17:09:55  Ross: the main problem is activity.....i said that in the forum itself
+-05-21 17:09:57  KevinMp: it lets veteran players discuss it, and ensure itll go right and such
+-05-21 17:10:00  darp: Back to coe.
+-05-21 17:10:00  Risque: Or combine Senate and COE
+-05-21 17:10:03  Tibos: from my experience, the CoE is a bit more active (lol!) and mature about problems than the Senate
+-05-21 17:10:06  Zorg: Yes the senate, hall of gods, elder forums are all similair sort of forums and none of them serve a purpose at present.
+-05-21 17:10:12  Ross: we have way too make players on the elders list who have long lost interest
+-05-21 17:10:17  Ross: thats the problem, imo
+-05-21 17:10:19  bcfcespley: elders is as useful as suggestions at this point in time, without the person who can actually make things happening having no input, whats the point in doing anything in them? {XD}
+-05-21 17:10:42  Angel: Maybe the COE could be used as a filter forum for the public forums, since you ay you want to remove the 'leser importance' Elders could ensure that the critical point are addressed and heard, rather than suggestions being shut down because they are either
+-05-21 17:10:53  Angel: improperly seen or jut spammed away
+-05-21 17:11:06  Scott: Well at the current status of the game
+-05-21 17:11:08  Zorg: so what place would the senate and avatar forums have?
+-05-21 17:11:18  Scott: things cant really be added ebcause of the rebuild
+-05-21 17:11:19  Food: It's simple, It requires Zorg's involvement to work..if not, it seems things are being said to deaf ears, also..we could use some active people, as mention.
+-05-21 17:11:20  Ross: no, we just need to axe the players who barely log in more and get some of the more active players in
+-05-21 17:11:24  Pie: I don't see why we have the senate
+-05-21 17:11:29  darp: Senate should remain, as needed. Avatar forum... meh.
+-05-21 17:11:34  Risque: Ross makes a good point
+-05-21 17:11:36  Ross: Primie, Jack, Doddsyboi, Pink
+-05-21 17:11:38  Ross: etc etc
+-05-21 17:11:43  Bernard721: Maybe if a suggestion in the Suggestion forum sounds decent, it could be moved into another forum for old player discussion
+-05-21 17:11:50  Tibos: Avatar forum = reward for avatars ; Senate = discussions that involve gangs
+-05-21 17:12:08  bcfcespley: a reward?
+-05-21 17:12:09  SlickVic: I don't see a lot of use for the Avatar forum
+-05-21 17:12:10  bcfcespley: o.O
+-05-21 17:12:14  Scott: So you guys would prefer a filter process ?
+-05-21 17:12:21  Ross: urgh
+-05-21 17:12:22  Ross: no
+-05-21 17:12:24  Ross: in short
+-05-21 17:12:26  Zorg: Like I said the Elder process became tiresome.... keeping track of a community and selecting those who are active to be Elders... removing inactive Elders. The idea of the Senate was the councils are player elected, it took away the need for staff...
+-05-21 17:12:31  KevinMp: same. avatar forum is like.. for gloating
+-05-21 17:12:31  Zorg: to add / remove Elders all the time.
+-05-21 17:12:34  Angel: Senate forums are gang related, they should be used for global gang discussions... (if any), The the Avatar forum is for avatars, elling av equipment/ welcoming new avatars, it already has it's purpose, not many pay attention to it, so that's why it seems
+-05-21 17:12:38  Angel: to be worthless
+-05-21 17:12:52  Ross: Zorg, its not that difficult to maintain elders at the moment
+-05-21 17:12:56  Ross: the list hasnt be revised in ages
+-05-21 17:12:58  Zorg: Yes, sadly the gangs rarely have the need to talk with all the other gangs.
+-05-21 17:13:07  Ross: been*
+-05-21 17:13:09  zerocomman: avatar forum is a place where people female-dog about tyran drops. it's worthless
+-05-21 17:13:14  KevinMp: we just need new ones. activeness is a requirement
+-05-21 17:13:22  Bernard721: I just dont see why this is the starting topic point... what is is, taking up 5mb on the server space? Leave it be, and modify it later
+-05-21 17:13:28  Scott: hmm
+-05-21 17:13:46  Zorg: So if we keep it and I get involved, how do we decide who gets to be an Elder and who does not?
+-05-21 17:13:50  darp: I think Zorg steering of COE or at least Zorg through Scott would be the most important starting point.
+-05-21 17:13:55  bcfcespley: everyone zorg
+-05-21 17:13:58  Ross: election from within?
+-05-21 17:14:00  Scott: So would you guys like to see the senate removed, avatar forum removed CoE reset and all player revised with a bigger member list?
+-05-21 17:14:07  darp: More work for Z and Staff, but it would spur some discussion.
+-05-21 17:14:09  Bernard721: How about using the voting system thats never used....
+-05-21 17:14:16  Tibos: election from within is the logical idea
+-05-21 17:14:18  Food: I say we leave Scott in chargew of members list, but if you keep a eye on what's said there Zorg, that would work.
+-05-21 17:14:19  Angel: so that isn't the issue here, the COE should use the filter method because it shows that the people who are selected are done so for a reason, they have more thought behind there points than new players as you said, and can develop less brain punching idea
+-05-21 17:14:22  Pascal: let people apply and scan their history within the game?
+-05-21 17:14:23  Angel: s so to speak :)
+-05-21 17:14:23  Ross: if you use internal election, it gives the group another purpose?
+-05-21 17:14:27  Zorg: The voting system is being removed soon. :/
+-05-21 17:14:45  bcfcespley: what and biased options is coming in instead?
+-05-21 17:14:55  Scott: Zorg, would it be a stupid idea to have like a gang voting system ?
+-05-21 17:15:00  KevinMp: people who are invited to CoE should be players with little staff issues, a long period of play, and activeness
+-05-21 17:15:06  Pie: why should the elders get to elect someone the staff don't care to listen to?
+-05-21 17:15:11  Rotten: dont we have a gang voting system?
+-05-21 17:15:16  Scott: like the kick player vote a player needs a certain number of yess's to get access ?
+-05-21 17:15:21  jonkers: Would different gangs agree  on a vote?
+-05-21 17:15:27  Zorg: I'm not adding voting systems on anything, this isn't a democracy... we can discuss things giving reasons not mindless pick from multiple choice questions.
+-05-21 17:15:27  Food: Voting is based too muchj on popularity, I strongly believe that a member of Staff should be incharge of the members.
+-05-21 17:15:38  KevinMp: should we have a certain amount of people from each gang in the Chambers?
+-05-21 17:15:42  KevinMp: 4 per?
+-05-21 17:15:46  Ross: it wouldnt be mindless pick from the elders...
+-05-21 17:15:54  darp: PiCOE should be removed from gang considerations as much as possible.
+-05-21 17:15:56  Pie: Kevin.. That would be the senate again..
+-05-21 17:16:01  Tibos: CoE is strongly gang independent
+-05-21 17:16:16  KevinMp: i mean.. just choosing the people that go in.
+-05-21 17:16:20  darp: I've seen very little gangbias in the COE.
+-05-21 17:16:23  KevinMp: So that way, every gang has a voice
+-05-21 17:16:38  Pie: Again, that sounds very similat to the senate..
+-05-21 17:16:39  Angel: Elders are decided from ranging factors, first would be account age, then game contributions, gang contribution, staff contribtions such a good ethics between players and staff, they should be selected by staff (Zorg and scott) with input from the current
+-05-21 17:16:39  Zorg: Yes, Elders would be for discussing game changes... not changes that could effect some gangs differently to others.
+-05-21 17:16:44  Pie: similar*
+-05-21 17:16:50  bcfcespley: but what is every coe member decides to join the same gang
+-05-21 17:16:52  Tibos: no, gang has nothing to do with CoE, people there are mature enough to think of the game and not of the gang they are in
+-05-21 17:16:56  Angel: elders but the decision remains staff for a non-biased outlook
+-05-21 17:17:07  Zorg: Clearly the current Elders list is out-dated.... Scott has been in charge of it for months, so clearly that's not working.
+-05-21 17:17:16  bcfcespley: lol yeah scott
+-05-21 17:17:18  bcfcespley: do your job :p
+-05-21 17:17:23  Pie: seconded.
+-05-21 17:17:24  Pie: xD
+-05-21 17:17:25  KevinMp: So how are we gonna go about deciding new members?
+-05-21 17:17:26  Ross: Lol
+-05-21 17:17:31  Risque: Per Bigmick - Keep the active members already in there and add or remove the rest.
+-05-21 17:17:33  KevinMp: staff pick?
+-05-21 17:17:33  Scott: -_-
+-05-21 17:17:37  Food: Was scott under the direction to fire inactive people?
+-05-21 17:17:41  Scott: well if i went ahead and removed inactives
+-05-21 17:17:52  Scott: it would be helpful if current elders did their joba nd suggested replacements
+-05-21 17:18:01  Bernard721: What about a seperate staff position for the head of CoE
+-05-21 17:18:01  Ross: ...
+-05-21 17:18:05  Pie: why does there have to be replacements?
+-05-21 17:18:19  Ross: theres a sticky on membership thats got about 59 votes
+-05-21 17:18:21  darp: We could do better suggesting new members, and there is no need to remove inactives.
+-05-21 17:18:22  Ross: posts*
+-05-21 17:18:22  Zorg: That would be a very boring job.
+-05-21 17:18:32  Pie: surely a small, active group is better than a larger, inactive one
+-05-21 17:18:33  Scott: Some old posts, witht he players inactive
+-05-21 17:18:39  KevinMp: Pie yes
+-05-21 17:18:46  bcfcespley: exactly pie
+-05-21 17:18:48  Scott: Right
+-05-21 17:18:53  Ross: there has to be replacements because theres people on the list who have zero input on this game anymore
+-05-21 17:18:57  darp: I don't see the difference.
+-05-21 17:18:59  Angel: COE has been seen as eligible to be removed, making a staff position is not functional just further proves the point it has no place.
+-05-21 17:19:01  Ross: they barely find the interest to log in regulary
+-05-21 17:19:06  Pie: but why do they have to be replaced?
+-05-21 17:19:09  Pie: why not just remove them?
+-05-21 17:19:18  Ross: because then you'll have about 8 elders
+-05-21 17:19:27  Ross: i'd be cool with that
+-05-21 17:19:32  Pie: and select Elders when somebody proves good enough.. :D
+-05-21 17:19:32  Ross: but its not my decision
+-05-21 17:19:34  Ross: so...
+-05-21 17:19:38  Scott: Right
+-05-21 17:19:38  Ross: yes
+-05-21 17:19:40  Pie: that's what we're here to discuss..
+-05-21 17:19:40  Ross: that could work
+-05-21 17:19:48  zerocomman: how many members does staff want in elders
+-05-21 17:19:49  Scott: so should elder list be reset yes or no -_-
+-05-21 17:19:55  KevinMp: yes
+-05-21 17:20:00  Risque: You need to decide how many elders, as well
+-05-21 17:20:01  Pie: reset? no
+-05-21 17:20:03  KevinMp: it needs to be refreshed
+-05-21 17:20:04  Bernard721: Well obviously Elders now are going to say no
+-05-21 17:20:06  Pie: pruned, yes
+-05-21 17:20:07  Tibos: trimmed and afterwards expanded
+-05-21 17:20:09  Ross: reset?
+-05-21 17:20:10  Angel: Maybe Selecting Elders could be the same as staff positions, it could be explained and applications sent to scott, which then gets discussed in the forum by the Elders currently, and a decision is reached?
+-05-21 17:20:11  KevinMp: some of them can stay
+-05-21 17:20:12  Ross: cut down
+-05-21 17:20:12  Zorg: There was never a limit.
+-05-21 17:20:13  Ross: :P
+-05-21 17:20:27  Zorg: There were like 20 elders before it shutdown and the gang system went live, they became the starting gang councils.
+-05-21 17:20:28  Tibos: Angel's idea souns nice
+-05-21 17:20:31  Pascal: their should be a clear idea te be "good" enough though
+-05-21 17:20:40  Risque: Bigmick - The original amount of elders was 16. Why change that.?
+-05-21 17:20:41  Ross: that idea sucks
+-05-21 17:20:49  Ross: cue levels 5 saying "KAN I B ELDAR"
+-05-21 17:20:59  Scott: like your application
+-05-21 17:21:01  Zorg: So you want it to remain an invite only elitist forum?
+-05-21 17:21:02  Scott: hehe :P
+-05-21 17:21:08  Ross: pretty much
+-05-21 17:21:10  KevinMp: we should maybe put a year limit on who we accept?
+-05-21 17:21:10  bcfcespley: yeah
+-05-21 17:21:12  Tibos: yes
+-05-21 17:21:15  jonkers: yes
+-05-21 17:21:16  Pie: if it's not invite only, you may as well close it..
+-05-21 17:21:16  Ross: that was the draw of the CoE to being wiht
+-05-21 17:21:17  Food: Yes.
+-05-21 17:21:17  Pascal: yeah
+-05-21 17:21:18  Zorg: Ok
+-05-21 17:21:21  Angel: obviously scott knows the difference between an aplicable elder and a level 5
+-05-21 17:21:21  KevinMp: for example, u need to have been playing for at least 2 years or something
+-05-21 17:21:28  Zorg: Do you want to allow applications or literally be like... wait until you get invited?
+-05-21 17:21:36  Ross: the latter
+-05-21 17:21:38  Pie: wait until you get contacted, i think
+-05-21 17:21:40  Zorg: Obviously we would ignore low level newbie applications.
+-05-21 17:21:41  KevinMp: yeah
+-05-21 17:21:43  jonkers: latter
+-05-21 17:21:43  Angel: You don't need to be a genius, Scott could easily filter out the 'lesser importance' :P
+-05-21 17:21:47  Pie: with discussion inside the froum
+-05-21 17:21:48  Pie: forum*
+-05-21 17:22:09  Pascal: applications sound nice, maybe make a system that checks if you are eligeble for it?
+-05-21 17:22:10  SlickVic: how were elders chosen initially?
+-05-21 17:22:15  zerocomman: i agree with waiting for invites
+-05-21 17:22:16  darp: Invite is fine, but I think membership is the lesser issue... what about the forum's function?
+-05-21 17:22:17  Zorg: Ok that's decided, the Elder forum will be re-launched, the member list updated and we'll form a new group of Elders through which all updates will be explained and discussed.
+-05-21 17:22:21  Ross: Zorg hand picked them
+-05-21 17:22:23  Tibos: handpicked by  zorg, SlickVic
+-05-21 17:22:24  darp: ok, fine.
+-05-21 17:22:24  Ross: i think...?
+-05-21 17:22:29  007Ben: an application would be good if it had a required rank to enter
+-05-21 17:22:41  KevinMp: we cant base it on gang rank, can we?
+-05-21 17:22:44  Zorg: They were hand picked by me, back when I was more community involved.
+-05-21 17:22:45  zerocomman: haha no
+-05-21 17:22:47  KevinMp: non-biased
+-05-21 17:22:50  darp: COE removed from gang.
+-05-21 17:22:55  Zorg: Ok the gang senate, should that just be removed?
+-05-21 17:22:55  Food: Zorg picked them out of Gang's leadership when he relauched I think :O
+-05-21 17:23:00  Food: Yes Zorg.
+-05-21 17:23:02  Scott: Yes.
+-05-21 17:23:03  Pie: yes
+-05-21 17:23:08  Angel: agreed
+-05-21 17:23:09  darp: Keep Senate.
+-05-21 17:23:09  Zorg: and the avatar forum?
+-05-21 17:23:10  Scott: At the moment i just see spam all the time
+-05-21 17:23:11  Tibos: No... it does no harm
+-05-21 17:23:14  darp: What's the harm?
+-05-21 17:23:15  Ross: remove it
+-05-21 17:23:16  zerocomman: kill avatar forum
+-05-21 17:23:18  Scott: well darp
+-05-21 17:23:18  Ross: useless forum
+-05-21 17:23:22  Zorg: It's never had a constructive post in it though. :/
+-05-21 17:23:23  Scott: im not being evil but
+-05-21 17:23:23  007Ben: not base it on the rank, just need to be a certain rank to apply for it, so no noobs would apply
+-05-21 17:23:24  darp: Oh, god. Tibos and I of one mind.
+-05-21 17:23:30  Bernard721: Why is there a need to scrap them?
+-05-21 17:23:32  Pie: Uh
+-05-21 17:23:33  Scott: the main threads are just good luck int he next wf
+-05-21 17:23:34  Food: There's no point in having 2 threads meant for the same thing./
+-05-21 17:23:36  Bernard721: If theres one tthread a year, so be it
+-05-21 17:23:37  Ross: we're at a stage now where we have more avatars than lower levels....whats the point?
+-05-21 17:23:38  Pie: The senate currently has no active topics
+-05-21 17:23:41  Pie: it's a waste
+-05-21 17:23:43  Scott: so in total we have a forum that gets a good luck thread every 3 months
+-05-21 17:23:43  Pascal: remove senate and keep avatar
+-05-21 17:24:02  Pascal: avatar is getting used still, well not much but more than senate :P
+-05-21 17:24:09  Scott: I'd say remove senate
+-05-21 17:24:11  Ross: the avatar one is more useles
+-05-21 17:24:15  Zorg: Ok I've been trying to make my presence in the suggestions forum a bit more known by actually posting my thoughts recently, I'll get more involved in the Elder forum and shutdown the Senate / Avatar forums.
+-05-21 17:24:15  jonkers: A DF member has suggested that every 3 months elders have to re apply to be an elder.
+-05-21 17:24:16  bcfcespley: remove suggestions
+-05-21 17:24:23  darp: At least on paper, there's no use for having a forum for gang leaderships to meet? Yes, it is not being used, but removing is the better idea? :/
+-05-21 17:24:26  Tibos: avatar forum is posted in daily, but mainly spam
+-05-21 17:24:30  Scott: that way the current rank 16's have a better job at gang relations
+-05-21 17:24:34  Zorg: Suggestions serves a purpose :/
+-05-21 17:24:42  bcfcespley: what purpose lol?
+-05-21 17:24:46  bcfcespley: dust collecting
+-05-21 17:24:54  darp: Leave Suggestions alone.
+-05-21 17:24:55  KevinMp: some of the ideas were taken
+-05-21 17:24:56  zerocomman: no need for an avatar spam forum
+-05-21 17:25:06 [Disconnect] Extreme
+-05-21 17:25:07  Angel: remove senate, why? because it is evident when being linked to communicate with other gangs, we don't want anything to do with it, if we wanted to dicusss any isues, that's what the rank 16's are for...
+-05-21 17:25:14  Food: Suggestions is the same as CoE, It requires Zorg to really work..since he says yes or no to things.
+-05-21 17:25:17  Rotten: Avatar Forum is one of our most useless forums, we all use it to complain about not getting tyran drops.
+-05-21 17:25:22  darp: I really don't want Senate removed.
+-05-21 17:25:23  Bernard721: Rank 16s are hardly used though...
+-05-21 17:25:42  bcfcespley: why dont zorg add his rating system in his updates to the suggestions forum threads?
+-05-21 17:25:42  Bernard721: People go straight to the people they're friendly with in a PM
+-05-21 17:25:44  Pie: darp.. all of its threads are archived
+-05-21 17:25:45  Scott: Well with senate beign removed rank 16's will have more to do
+-05-21 17:25:49  Pie: nothing constructive gets posted there
+-05-21 17:25:52  Risque: Senate hasn't had a post since April 5th so what's the point?
+-05-21 17:25:52  Zorg: why though darp?
+-05-21 17:26:06  Zorg: your personal dislike of change is not reason to keep something that has no purpose
+-05-21 17:26:08  darp: Whether used or not, the avenue of communication is open.
+-05-21 17:26:11  Ross: none of the gangs like each other....whats the point in trying to maintaina  forum where they can co-exist?
+-05-21 17:26:12  Ross: {XD}
+-05-21 17:26:14  Scott: If i moved good suggestions to senate it will just turn into arguements
+-05-21 17:26:14  Zorg: The whole point of the senate was to replace the elder forum and it never did
+-05-21 17:26:24  Pie: The rank 16's job is to communicate..
+-05-21 17:26:29  Zorg: an avenue that is never used in the years it has been open
+-05-21 17:26:30  Pie: Use them
+-05-21 17:26:44  Angel: the avenue of communication is within the rank 16', they are suppose to 'communicate'. Not everyone in leadership.
+-05-21 17:26:56  jonkers: An idea from a DF member. In the senate forum a gang should be able to open a thread that only a selected gang could read. So If for example OC only want to talk to BOD that can.
+-05-21 17:27:00  Bernard721: I have a feeling this LegCon is going to be a long one... I mean 30 minutes on forum use....
+-05-21 17:27:02  darp: Sometimes I want to yell at 15 people directly, not through the r16s.
+-05-21 17:27:08  Angel: The rank 16 is suppose to bring any discussion to the attention of council in the council forum, not the senate
+-05-21 17:27:08  Pie: jonkers
+-05-21 17:27:17  Zorg: Gang to gang forums aren't happening.
+-05-21 17:27:17  Scott: jonkers that would be... stupid
+-05-21 17:27:18  Angel: thus creating senate forum useless :P
+-05-21 17:27:20  Pie: in response to that, again, that is why there are Rank 16
+-05-21 17:27:28  Zorg: Ratings could be added to Suggestions but that would be a big job.
+-05-21 17:27:29  Pie: And the post office..
+-05-21 17:27:36  Scott: plus
+-05-21 17:27:38  bcfcespley: just copy and paste the code lol {XD}
+-05-21 17:27:45  Scott: the problem with ratings is its jsut thumbs up or down
+-05-21 17:27:50  jonkers: Its not my idea I am just passing on idea's
+-05-21 17:27:52  Scott: we need to know WHY its good or bad
+-05-21 17:27:56  Pie: i know
+-05-21 17:27:56  Zorg: Like you copy and paste your graphics? :o
+-05-21 17:27:58  Zorg: Zing!
+-05-21 17:28:00  Pie: I was just responding to it
+-05-21 17:28:03  bcfcespley: yeah
+-05-21 17:28:08  bcfcespley: cus that made sense {XD}
+-05-21 17:28:12  Scott: its no use just saying thumbs down to a good suggestion
+-05-21 17:28:16  Zorg: :D
+-05-21 17:28:19  Scott: we need to know why you think its crap
+-05-21 17:28:19  bcfcespley: :P
+-05-21 17:28:20  Zorg: Ok next topic
+-05-21 17:28:33  Ross: Ste got bullied then
+-05-21 17:28:44  bcfcespley: how did i lol
+-05-21 17:28:47  Zorg: Flame Forum, right now we're deleting stuff that may get us in to... legal trouble, soon the TOS will be re-written to prohibit such discussion. Apart from that the plan is to leave it.
+-05-21 17:28:54  Zorg: Do you guys like it? hate it? etc
+-05-21 17:28:55  Ross: wooo
+-05-21 17:28:58  Ross: Go flame forum
+-05-21 17:28:59  Bernard721: Love it.
+-05-21 17:29:02  Tibos: i like it
+-05-21 17:29:05  Bernard721: I know its childish.. but its great
+-05-21 17:29:13  Tibos: but i would like an anti-spam rule on it
+-05-21 17:29:14  KevinMp: its all trash, but its pretty much a spam forum
+-05-21 17:29:17  darp: It's pretty inane, but meh... the purpose is sound.
+-05-21 17:29:19  Pie: it doesn't seem o have moved any of the arguments off of Side Chat -.-
+-05-21 17:29:23  007Ben: personally i like it, but most if the forums are just pointless :P
+-05-21 17:29:24  Pie: if anything, i've had more tickets
+-05-21 17:29:26  zerocomman: anti-spam would be much appreciated
+-05-21 17:29:27  Food: It's not for me, I have little to no interest in it, but of course..for others it serves a purpose.
+-05-21 17:29:28  Risque: Nothing will do that, Pie
+-05-21 17:29:29  darp: It seems to be the new non-related forum, though, often.
+-05-21 17:29:30  KevinMp: but imo, if it gets the game in trouble, kill it
+-05-21 17:29:32  Zorg: In short the TOS re-write will prohibit pornographic content, illegal content and personal attacks aimed at individuals within the game.
+-05-21 17:29:36  Rotten: I hate the Flame Forum
+-05-21 17:29:43  Scott: Right now i get a mail a week asking me to take action on player abuse ..
+-05-21 17:29:50  Pascal: yeah flame forum should get kept out of sidechat &gt;.&gt;
+-05-21 17:29:54  Scott: i cant because if someone insults you its a FLAME forum
+-05-21 17:29:55  Scott: ignore it
+-05-21 17:29:59  SlickVic: I have no use for it, but I don't have to vist there so its not an issue to me.
+-05-21 17:30:06  Food: Once ToS is Re-written then I think Flame Forum will be fine.
+-05-21 17:30:06  Risque: Exactly, Slick
+-05-21 17:30:10  007Ben: id rather not click on a link that is said to be a video and be shown genetalia
+-05-21 17:30:13  Zorg: Well personal attacks in the flame forum will be banned by the TOS soon.
+-05-21 17:30:25  KevinMp: then in that case, flame forums are good 2 go
+-05-21 17:30:27  zerocomman: half the stuff in flame would just normally be in non-related
+-05-21 17:30:28  Scott: 0007, that si one of the things that will be banned by  Tos
+-05-21 17:30:29  darp: How is it a Flame forum then?
+-05-21 17:30:29  Ross: makes sense
+-05-21 17:30:29  Tibos: doesn't that ... contradict the purpose?
+-05-21 17:30:32  Bernard721: Well genetalia is considered pornography... so new ToS  will limit that
+-05-21 17:30:38  Ross: -_-
+-05-21 17:30:43  Angel: It's good, in myopinion because it reveals what some people will do, and helps to decide upon giving them such respect as staff positions, Elder positions etc, if they say something out of line it shows how they can't make points across without being a
+-05-21 17:30:47  Ross: you guys have tge wrong end of a stick as to what a flame forum is...
+-05-21 17:30:50  bcfcespley: angel stop with the essays XD
+-05-21 17:30:53  Angel: complete ass...
+-05-21 17:31:00  Scott: for the past few weeks i have edited out a few things that violate a few things
+-05-21 17:31:04  Zorg: ...*shrug* but there is untested liability through internet bullying if you allow your website to be used for personal attacks against others.
+-05-21 17:31:04  Rotten: Remove the flame forum
+-05-21 17:31:10  darp: Then pay attention to the summary, there, bcf.
+-05-21 17:31:14  darp: lol
+-05-21 17:31:29  darp: Legal considerations trump all.
+-05-21 17:31:31  Ross: its fine zorg,
+-05-21 17:31:35  Zorg: And I'd rather not be in the court case that tests the water on that one, I'll leave that to facebook and encyclopedia dramatica... they have more money... and lawyers
+-05-21 17:31:46  Ross: the flame forum i suggested to you was merely a forum where restrictions on swearing werent in place
+-05-21 17:31:50  Ross: mainly got every day rants
+-05-21 17:31:50  darp: personal attacks = racism, and all the isms, but everything else is fine?
+-05-21 17:31:52  Ross: or touchy subjects
+-05-21 17:32:00  Scott: Racsim is edited out right now
+-05-21 17:32:04  Ross: people who started abusing others took it way out of the context it was meant
+-05-21 17:32:11  Scott: look at searphims thread right now, shes bitching about my edits
+-05-21 17:32:13  zerocomman: so rename the flame forum so it no longer implies flaming is approved
+-05-21 17:32:15  Bernard721: Yep. Racist is edited... ::roll::
+-05-21 17:32:17  KevinMp: look... the flame forum is gonna get you in hot water :/
+-05-21 17:32:25  Zorg: It will be an open forum with no restriction on content (besides legal restrictions), no language rules... for ranting and complaining. lol
+-05-21 17:32:27  Korin: rename it to swearing forum
+-05-21 17:32:32  KevinMp: if it causes problems, redo it
+-05-21 17:32:32  Ross: woo
+-05-21 17:32:33  Tibos: Open Forum?
+-05-21 17:32:35  Angel: Right now staff 'watch over' the flame forum, so it is just a way of seeing who is here just to fool around and who is here as a more serious manner, than just 'flaming' :)
+-05-21 17:32:44  Bernard721: So why is using a racial slur different than using unrestricted langugage use
+-05-21 17:32:47  Zorg: Right now staff watch over it to delete anything illegal lol
+-05-21 17:32:51  Korin: its not a flame forum without personal attacks
+-05-21 17:32:55  darp: So, I can tear someone a new one in Flame Forum still, as long as I'm not being racist or other ists?
+-05-21 17:32:59  Angel: Exactly Zorg
+-05-21 17:33:00  Korin: rant forum/unrestricted forum/swear forum
+-05-21 17:33:02  Scott: because a racial slur is bullying against someones race
+-05-21 17:33:03  Zorg: Open i.e you can discuss anything... suggestions, legacy stuff, not related stuff.... whatever
+-05-21 17:33:06  Angel: there is it's purpose right there
+-05-21 17:33:20  Scott: in the UK legislation it is illegal to use race against someone :/
+-05-21 17:33:28  Zorg: No you will not be able to use the flame forum for personal attacks against players of the game.
+-05-21 17:33:28  007Ben: if people dont want to read racial slurs, they shouldnt be in the flame forum
+-05-21 17:33:29  Angel: to weed out who wants to act up and who is more civil
+-05-21 17:33:34  Ross: or everyday subjects that could cause tension or hit a few nerves :P
+-05-21 17:33:40  Pie: a while ago, i had trouble explaining to somebody that the Flame Forum was not created for players to attack other players
+-05-21 17:33:46  darp: Then definitely rename it away from Flame forum.
+-05-21 17:33:54  Bernard721: But using a racial slur, not pointed at a specific person is not a personal attack
+-05-21 17:33:56  Zorg: Rename it to what? :/
+-05-21 17:33:58  Ross: -_-
+-05-21 17:34:00  Tibos: Open Forum
+-05-21 17:34:01  Angel: spam forum?
+-05-21 17:34:02  Scott: Open Forum sounds better
+-05-21 17:34:03  darp: Open or such.
+-05-21 17:34:04  Zorg: Chav Forum -_-
+-05-21 17:34:05  Bernard721: 18+?
+-05-21 17:34:10  Ross: darp, you have the wrong end of the stick lol
+-05-21 17:34:10  Scott: Zorg Forum mwhaha
+-05-21 17:34:13  Zorg: ok all the Americans wouldnt get that joke
+-05-21 17:34:16  Angel: All it is essentially is spam
+-05-21 17:34:23  Bernard721: Oh I got the joke
+-05-21 17:34:25  Scott: Post count doesnt count
+-05-21 17:34:30  Scott: so spam shouldnt be an issue
+-05-21 17:34:33  Tibos: actually it's not spam ;)
+-05-21 17:34:39  Bernard721: 18+ Forum... done dea
+-05-21 17:34:40  Scott: Flooding on the otherhand
+-05-21 17:34:42  Bernard721: deal*
+-05-21 17:34:45  Ross: flaming in the UK means swearing
+-05-21 17:34:46  Ross: simple as
+-05-21 17:34:49  Zorg: Spam just makes my nightly db backups take longer. -_-
+-05-21 17:34:49  KevinMp: remake the spam forum and remove the idea of flame. solvves the problem, and lets people say what they want
+-05-21 17:35:02  Scott: *floods Zorgs inbox*
+-05-21 17:35:04  Ross: thats all the intention of the forum was, a place to have no restictions on language
+-05-21 17:35:10  Zorg: ok so Spam Forum, I'll put in place the rules mentioned above... swearing and such will still be allowed.
+-05-21 17:35:11  zerocomman: i doubt people want it to be a spam forum either
+-05-21 17:35:12  Ross: not to actually start inciting hatred on other players
+-05-21 17:35:14  darp: Flaming every where else in the world means verbally abusing people.
+-05-21 17:35:20  Bernard721: Not Spam Forum..
+-05-21 17:35:21  Bernard721: Its not spam
+-05-21 17:35:27  Bernard721: Its discussions that are 18+
+-05-21 17:35:28  Ross: doesnt have to mean people...
+-05-21 17:35:30  Scott: ...
+-05-21 17:35:31  007Ben: adult forum
+-05-21 17:35:34  Risque:  Bigmick - I think having a forum like this puts you on dodgey ground, why take the risk?
+-05-21 17:35:35  Zorg: Mature Forum? o.O
+-05-21 17:35:38  Zorg: That sounds like porn...
+-05-21 17:35:41  Pascal: XD
+-05-21 17:35:42  darp: Mature forum lol
+-05-21 17:35:47  Rotten: people can just lie and say there 18+
+-05-21 17:35:50  Ross: Non-Restricted?
+-05-21 17:35:51  KevinMp: mature forum would lead to porn one way or another
+-05-21 17:35:52  Tibos: Unrestricted Forum if you don't like Open
+-05-21 17:35:52  Rotten: that solves nothing
+-05-21 17:35:53  Scott: are you telling me that a thread about MrImplode being an idiot isnt spam
+-05-21 17:35:54  Scott: o_o
+-05-21 17:35:57  Ross: kinda has a play on words from not-related
+-05-21 17:36:00  Ross: :D
+-05-21 17:36:02  Bernard721: Well of course, I mean I'm 15... but its the players choice
+-05-21 17:36:13  Food: The big boys forum with no offical name forum.
+-05-21 17:36:15  Scott: So technically you shouldnt be in that forum hehe :P
+-05-21 17:36:16  Food: There we go.
+-05-21 17:36:25  darp: People can lie about their age. That's fine. The legal considerations remain covered.
+-05-21 17:36:26  bcfcespley: no because people will read the word unrestricted without reading the tos
+-05-21 17:36:27  zerocomman: does making it a clan rather than a public forum help any?
+-05-21 17:36:32  Scott: and i highly doubt you went "mommy can i acces the big bad forum"
+-05-21 17:36:35  KevinMp: if we had an age limit on a forum, the little kids would complain about not being allowed
+-05-21 17:36:41  KevinMp: i could see them making multis just to access it
+-05-21 17:36:48  Bernard721: Its the internet people
+-05-21 17:36:49  Scott: Multis shouldnt be an issue.
+-05-21 17:36:55  bcfcespley: Hi are you 18? yes, ok {XD}
+-05-21 17:36:59  Ross: if people lie about their age and then get offended by what they see
+-05-21 17:37:00  Pie: the Flame Forum has an accept thing that says only accept if you're 18, Kevin
+-05-21 17:37:03  Ross: thats their problem
+-05-21 17:37:13  Bernard721: Ross ::yes::
+-05-21 17:37:13  Scott: people can make multis to read other gang forums.. do you want us to shutdown gangs to 0 day old people lol?
+-05-21 17:37:21  Risque: Charge admission to the flame forum :X
+-05-21 17:37:45  007Ben: i agree with ross, if people get offended after lying about their age, its their oen fault
+-05-21 17:37:45  Scott: if people make multis they get banned
+-05-21 17:37:48  Scott: their own fault
+-05-21 17:37:50  Zorg: ok the forum will remain anyway with some restrictions and a possible rename
+-05-21 17:37:51  007Ben: own*
+-05-21 17:38:04  Scott: Spanky
+-05-21 17:38:09  Scott: are you actually typing
+-05-21 17:38:13  Scott: or have you fallen asleep
+-05-21 17:38:18  Spanky: nope
+-05-21 17:38:20  Risque: rofl
+-05-21 17:38:20  Ross: anyone who gets offended by a few swear words needs a slap anyway
+-05-21 17:38:22  Tibos: no, he's been that way since before we started
+-05-21 17:38:25  Pie: i'm thingking that too, Scott
+-05-21 17:38:26  Pie: xD
+-05-21 17:38:30  Pie: thinking*
+-05-21 17:38:33  Bernard721: {XD}
+-05-21 17:38:33  Angel: i saw that aswell
+-05-21 17:38:33  bcfcespley: hes been typing sinse it started {XD}
+-05-21 17:38:36  Angel: :P
+-05-21 17:38:40  Spanky: listening
+-05-21 17:38:49  Pascal: you mean reading
+-05-21 17:38:51  Zorg: Ok another topic, Legacy Affairs
+-05-21 17:38:54  KevinMp: dude... just rename it spam forum. filter the swears, but allow edgier content
+-05-21 17:38:58  Bernard721: OK so just putting it out there... Speak up TC {XD} Private Message me
+-05-21 17:39:07  Zorg: Do you guys want a clan that checks staff logs and reviews staff decisions or not?
+-05-21 17:39:13  Tibos: yes!
+-05-21 17:39:16  jonkers: yes
+-05-21 17:39:16  Ross: damn right
+-05-21 17:39:17  Risque: Yes
+-05-21 17:39:19  Bernard721: ... LA?
+-05-21 17:39:20  007Ben: that would be nice
+-05-21 17:39:23  Pascal: what is the purpose right now?
+-05-21 17:39:26  Pie: .. we already have one
+-05-21 17:39:28  Bernard721: Legacy Affairs....?
+-05-21 17:39:28  Pie: and it does just that
+-05-21 17:39:30  Bernard721: :/
+-05-21 17:39:32  KevinMp: we need to see legacy affairs
+-05-21 17:39:33  zerocomman: assuming the members aren't just going to kiss up to staff all the time
+-05-21 17:39:34  Pie: if anyone's confused
+-05-21 17:39:34  Scott: LA is inactive right now
+-05-21 17:39:39  Angel: LA needs more members and to be made more public, not many people know of it's existance...
+-05-21 17:39:40  Ross: who? FatTony?
+-05-21 17:39:40  Zorg: Basically 2 members of LA are inactive, most issues covered are stuff that could just be ticketed to Lucas anyway.
+-05-21 17:39:45  Ross: he might aswell be staff
+-05-21 17:39:50  Food: I have a question, Does Legacy affairs get used as is?
+-05-21 17:39:51  Ross: you need more less biased views
+-05-21 17:39:57  bcfcespley: exactly ross lol
+-05-21 17:39:58  Pie: LA gets used
+-05-21 17:40:00  Ross: more less?
+-05-21 17:40:02  Ross: anyway
+-05-21 17:40:02  bcfcespley: about to say that
+-05-21 17:40:04  Ross: point stands
+-05-21 17:40:05  Zorg: Legacy Affairs right now raises 1 issue every 2 months or so apparently to Lucas
+-05-21 17:40:05  jonkers: Maybe have a set number from each gang?
+-05-21 17:40:11  Pie: I get approached by faelust occasionally
+-05-21 17:40:16  Bernard721: I went to LA with a legitimate question, and I've never gotten a reply
+-05-21 17:40:18  bcfcespley: please
+-05-21 17:40:26  bcfcespley: whats the point in having it
+-05-21 17:40:29  Zorg: FatTony and calciomoti do not reply to messages much at all.
+-05-21 17:40:50  Zorg: The idea seemed good at the time but it never really got used as it was intended.
+-05-21 17:40:53  Tibos: idk about Calcio, but FT is pretty active as a mod
+-05-21 17:41:00  Angel: I propose more active/responsive members who are rustworthy to give as non-biased pov as possible.
+-05-21 17:41:03  bcfcespley: we have a staff team, some biased players opinion matters not much to me
+-05-21 17:41:06  Zorg: He is active as a mod but he takes 2-3 days to reply to me via PM :/
+-05-21 17:41:07  Angel: trust*
+-05-21 17:41:10  Scott: alot of peopel go to faelust
+-05-21 17:41:12  Ross: thats the only reason FT is active anymore
+-05-21 17:41:20  Scott: I have to say she is one player that gets things done
+-05-21 17:41:21  Ross: hes power drunk lol
+-05-21 17:41:25  Scott: and is fair on both sides
+-05-21 17:41:26  darp: Legacy Affairs has been both timely and effective for me thus far. Would like a few more members from each gang... maybe some public presence, but not sure.
+-05-21 17:41:40  Zorg: We could just shutdown Legacy Affairs... and hand that job to the Elders...
+-05-21 17:41:41  Risque: Public presence is a good idea
+-05-21 17:41:47  Food: I don't think we need LA to be honest, why go through all the trouble of finding trust worthy players when we can just make sure we have trust worthy staff to begin with?
+-05-21 17:41:50  Bernard721: Oh boy... Circular discussion
+-05-21 17:41:51  KevinMp: i guess that could work
+-05-21 17:41:58  Pie: wouldn't that include giving Elders access to RC..?
+-05-21 17:41:59  Pie: &gt;.&gt;
+-05-21 17:41:59  Tibos: sounds like a resonable idea
+-05-21 17:42:00  bcfcespley: I went to LA before, load of rubbish got no replies at all
+-05-21 17:42:02  Ross: yeah thats a good idea zorg
+-05-21 17:42:03  KevinMp: elders could do both :)
+-05-21 17:42:07  Zorg: No, just access to admin_log's
+-05-21 17:42:10  Scott: hmm
+-05-21 17:42:10  zerocomman: i agree. it makes sense to consolidate
+-05-21 17:42:11  Bernard721: That could work
+-05-21 17:42:11  Zorg: and forum_logs and such
+-05-21 17:42:17  Scott: Ross with access to RC logs
+-05-21 17:42:19  jonkers: That leads us to who should be elders.
+-05-21 17:42:21  bcfcespley: hahaha
+-05-21 17:42:22  Scott: i see a car crash
+-05-21 17:42:24  Ross: whats RC?
+-05-21 17:42:31  Pie: move them out of RC? or just copy them? o.0
+-05-21 17:42:34  Tibos: but in that case, i would reduce the number of people in the CoE
+-05-21 17:42:36  Scott: Staff System
+-05-21 17:42:41  Scott: right
+-05-21 17:42:42  Zorg: Then Elders could discuss staff decisions when there are no updates to talk about.
+-05-21 17:42:49  Ross: sounds good
+-05-21 17:42:53  KevinMp: ::yes::
+-05-21 17:42:54  Zorg: This is the point in the discussion where I wanted Lucas' feedback as well -_-
+-05-21 17:42:55  Pie: i don't like that idea
+-05-21 17:42:55  Food: Sounds like a plan.
+-05-21 17:42:56  darp: Mmm... worth trying.
+-05-21 17:42:56  Bernard721: I approve
+-05-21 17:43:07  Ross: Lucas is too busy swiping off
+-05-21 17:43:15  Risque: Can Elders veto a staff decision, by majority vote and with good reason?
+-05-21 17:43:25  Scott: Not really ..
+-05-21 17:43:27  Zorg: Erm, no...
+-05-21 17:43:30  Ross: Lol
+-05-21 17:43:32  Tibos: {xd}
+-05-21 17:43:33  bcfcespley: {XD}{XD}
+-05-21 17:43:40  Scott: if someone does an offense
+-05-21 17:43:40  Zorg: Again... NOT a democracy, lol
+-05-21 17:43:45  Scott: then theyre going to get punished
+-05-21 17:43:46  Pie: Staff should enforce the rules, and be reviewed by the Staff Manager..
+-05-21 17:43:46  Bernard721: 1000c to vote against my Ban
+-05-21 17:43:47  Bernard721: Gogogogogo!
+-05-21 17:43:47  Pie: Lucas
+-05-21 17:43:57  Ross: Lucas should be fired
+-05-21 17:44:00  Ross: Lucas...
+-05-21 17:44:04  bcfcespley: promote scott lol
+-05-21 17:44:09  bcfcespley: only one who bothers around here
+-05-21 17:44:09  Scott: you cant exactly say "he fell asleep whislt on the enter button" if i -4 someome that has 3 spam offences this year
+-05-21 17:44:09  Food: ^^ Agree with Pie.
+-05-21 17:44:18  Scott: ive heard that excuse 5 times now
+-05-21 17:44:24  Zorg: yes and Lucas should be active in the Elders forum in their review of logs
+-05-21 17:44:26  Scott: i fell asleep .. my ass
+-05-21 17:44:47  Zorg: We're not talking about giving Elders any power over staff decisions... and we dont really have anything to hide. :/
+-05-21 17:44:57  Zorg: Most staff decisions are based on a pre-determined ruleset written by the staff manager anyway.
+-05-21 17:45:06  Ross: except Deegs corpse?
+-05-21 17:45:26  Bernard721: The Staff Manager seems really active....
+-05-21 17:45:30  Scott: Deegs threads have pretty much been reviewed by Lucas and are upto date
+-05-21 17:45:30  Tibos: so we get to check up on staff and tell Lucas when he needs to spank someone?
+-05-21 17:45:35  Scott: and Lucas is active
+-05-21 17:45:39  Zorg: Account Admins collect evidence, review account history and determine a punishment based on rules defined by Deeg and Lucas... that should be easily defendable if questioned. :/
+-05-21 17:46:03  Pie: I think that a group as large as the Elders wouldn't be capable of making decisions on Staff issues
+-05-21 17:46:14  Pie: if there is a group, i think expanding LA slightly is the best option
+-05-21 17:46:18  Risque: That was part of my point, Zorg. Staff isn't all knowing O.o
+-05-21 17:46:19  Scott: Elders will be reduced once inactive have been kicked by myself :D
+-05-21 17:46:21  Zorg: They wouldn't be making decisions though.
+-05-21 17:46:27  darp: Then expand LA a bit. It has worked very well for me.
+-05-21 17:46:27  Pie: i meant
+-05-21 17:46:33  Pie: reviewing staff decisions when needed
+-05-21 17:46:53  Pie: Lucas does the same job as LA
+-05-21 17:46:55  Angel: so if LA turns into Elders job aswell, what will decide Elders, wold you use the method i suggested? Oh applications then reviewing within the Elders forum?
+-05-21 17:47:04  Scott: Bit of both Angel
+-05-21 17:47:05  Ross: or, incoprorate less biased views and let the elders do it?
+-05-21 17:47:20  Scott: Elders has alot of bias people in it :P
+-05-21 17:47:21  Ross: and give them more purpose in the process
+-05-21 17:47:21  Angel: to me that sounds like the best approach
+-05-21 17:47:22  Pie: the expanded LA wouldn't be biased
+-05-21 17:47:28  Ross: its universal to gangs though
+-05-21 17:47:32  Angel: but they are just giving input
+-05-21 17:47:32  Pie: I think getting respected community members would be good
+-05-21 17:47:35  Scott: Ross you cant exactly say you're unbiased :P
+-05-21 17:47:35  Angel: like always
+-05-21 17:47:39  KevinMp: Pie yes :O
+-05-21 17:47:39  Zorg: Yes the problem is players dont trust a single individual to be unbiased and watch over staff... they didn't trust Deeg and I doubt they trust Lucas any more.
+-05-21 17:47:41  Angel: it is ultimately a staff decision
+-05-21 17:47:47  Bernard721: PLayers should have access to their own personal crime history
+-05-21 17:47:51  Bernard721: That was really random
+-05-21 17:47:52  Scott: Nope
+-05-21 17:47:52  Bernard721: But yea.
+-05-21 17:47:56  Scott: Not happening
+-05-21 17:47:57  Zorg: Making the staff process more transparent would solve that.
+-05-21 17:48:05  darp: Agreed with Zorg on both points.
+-05-21 17:48:10  Pie: But who do they think chooses who's in LA, Zorg?
+-05-21 17:48:21  Pie: the same person that chooses who the staff manager is..
+-05-21 17:48:28  Zorg: When you assign overseeing power to a single person, most players will assume they're friends with all the staff and in it for the power, etc, etc
+-05-21 17:48:42  Zorg: I picked the LA :/
+-05-21 17:48:48  Pie: you also picked Lucas
+-05-21 17:48:49  Zorg: Originally the staff manager couldnt even view their forum
+-05-21 17:48:52  darp: You don't have to pull the curtain all the way back for every one to see, but there is benefit to people thinking they have some insight or influence on things.
+-05-21 17:48:53  Ross: to be fair though, Lucas is more likely to just accept the staffs decision than turn around and say it was wrong
+-05-21 17:48:59  bcfcespley: yeah me sucking zorg of had me nothing to do with being able to do graphics
+-05-21 17:49:00  Pie: so why shouldn't they doubt your decisons on one and not the other?
+-05-21 17:49:05  Scott: Actually
+-05-21 17:49:10  KevinMp: bcfcespley -_- lol
+-05-21 17:49:17  Scott: Lucas reverted 2 of my decisions when I was rank 2
+-05-21 17:49:26  Scott: He does his job.
+-05-21 17:49:31  darp: And Staff managers have *never* done due dilligence that I've seen in investigating or communicationg staff/player issues.
+-05-21 17:49:34  Bernard721: Checks and balances are a mighty thing
+-05-21 17:49:35  bcfcespley: BUT
+-05-21 17:49:39  Tibos: groups are more trustworthy than a single person
+-05-21 17:49:41  bcfcespley: i think scott would do a better job
+-05-21 17:49:48  Zorg: Of course Lucas is, thats how chains of command work. I'd always side with staff even if they were wrong, i'd then yell at them in private after...
+-05-21 17:49:50  Scott: I'm fine as development manager
+-05-21 17:49:57  Ross: Lol
+-05-21 17:50:04  Pie: It's true.. xD
+-05-21 17:50:10  darp: Oh dear.
+-05-21 17:50:11  Zorg: You have to present a unified front as a staff team.
+-05-21 17:50:11  bcfcespley: lol ive been yelled at {XD}
+-05-21 17:50:16  Zorg: And keep the arguements in private.
+-05-21 17:50:37  Scott: Right so to recap
+-05-21 17:50:38  Bernard721: Not to be that guy, and bring in politics... but I mean a congress of elected representives, like the LA would be a great thing to have to review staff decisions
+-05-21 17:50:42  Scott: Bigger LA team or Edlers ?
+-05-21 17:50:48  Ross: Elders
+-05-21 17:50:49  Bernard721: Elders
+-05-21 17:50:50  Scott: Elders*
+-05-21 17:50:51  bcfcespley: Elders
+-05-21 17:50:53  Pascal: elders
+-05-21 17:50:54  Tibos: i sai 16 elders
+-05-21 17:50:54  Pie: Larger selection of LA
+-05-21 17:50:55  Angel: Elders
+-05-21 17:50:55  007Ben: elders
+-05-21 17:50:59  Scott: Or
+-05-21 17:51:00  Food: LA
+-05-21 17:51:07  Scott: one sec
+-05-21 17:51:09  Scott: i have an idea
+-05-21 17:51:15  Zorg: I just think making staff decisions public to the Elders... and the rules that govern staff decisions public to the Elders... would lead to very little discussion on their part as they would understand our position.
+-05-21 17:51:16  Pie: a group as large as the elders would be inefficient.. -.-
+-05-21 17:51:18  Scott: La can only be picked from elders
+-05-21 17:51:19  darp: Hmm... outvoted. :P Was going to say bigger LA team, but try with the Elders. See if it solves the inactivity problem.
+-05-21 17:51:26  Zorg: Unless our position is in some way flawed, in which case they have every right to argue with it.
+-05-21 17:51:32  Scott: so youd have to progress to elder before you could have a shot at LA ?
+-05-21 17:51:43  Pie: Pick LA from elders
+-05-21 17:51:45  Pie: problem solved
+-05-21 17:51:46  darp: Or LA grabbed from Elders could work,.
+-05-21 17:51:46  Bernard721: That could work too
+-05-21 17:51:49  KevinMp: that sounds fair i guess
+-05-21 17:51:52  Pie: darp : win
+-05-21 17:51:53  Bernard721: A higher chain
+-05-21 17:51:54  Pie: 8)
+-05-21 17:51:54  Scott: thats what i said darp
+-05-21 17:51:55  Food: That works Scott.
+-05-21 17:51:55  Scott: XD
+-05-21 17:52:05  Zorg: Did darp just out-vote everybody with one vote? wtf
+-05-21 17:52:14  Ross: how would that change anything?
+-05-21 17:52:17  Pie: i beat him to saying it dammit
+-05-21 17:52:20  Ross: it would still be faelust, FT and calcio...
+-05-21 17:52:21  Tibos: no, he has a good point
+-05-21 17:52:23  jonkers: Have we decided on who should be elders?
+-05-21 17:52:24  Scott: Nope
+-05-21 17:52:29  Scott: once we de-weed elders
+-05-21 17:52:31  Bernard721: A meeting in ONline Chat of elders can solve so many things.. I mean just look at this.. 4 representives from 4 gangs having a discussion
+-05-21 17:52:37  Zorg: Inactive Elders will be removed, the remaining Elders....
+-05-21 17:52:41  Scott: im sure La will start to collect members from my teah
+-05-21 17:52:41  Zorg: will decide who the new Elders will be
+-05-21 17:52:43  darp: lol... I'm lagging a bit. :P
+-05-21 17:52:47  Ross: right
+-05-21 17:52:48  Scott: team*
+-05-21 17:52:49  Zorg: and then all those people combined... will decide who the LA people will be
+-05-21 17:53:01  KevinMp: sounds like a plan ::yes::
+-05-21 17:53:07  Scott: ok
+-05-21 17:53:08  darp: Go with that and review next LegCon.
+-05-21 17:53:15  Risque: I concur
+-05-21 17:53:15  jonkers: What about a max number of elders?
+-05-21 17:53:18  Zorg: And how do we suggest we make the secret group within the secret Elders public knowledge to those confused as to why they were banned? :/
+-05-21 17:53:26  Rotten: like 50 elders max
+-05-21 17:53:38  bcfcespley: ok zorg just confused me {XD}
+-05-21 17:53:40  Ross: have an LA rep?
+-05-21 17:53:41  Tibos: 50 is a big number :P
+-05-21 17:53:42  jonkers: I think 50 is too many
+-05-21 17:53:47  Pie: a rep sounds good
+-05-21 17:53:47  Ross: who is responsible for explaining
+-05-21 17:53:52  Zorg: It will stay around 20 or so people
+-05-21 17:53:53  Pie: With a thread somehere
+-05-21 17:53:59  KevinMp: 50 = too many. try... 20? ish?
+-05-21 17:54:00  Pie: or a page displaying information
+-05-21 17:54:09  jonkers: What about a max number per gang?
+-05-21 17:54:14  Ross: no
+-05-21 17:54:14  bcfcespley: no jonkers
+-05-21 17:54:16  Scott: Hopefully elder control can be added to RC in the day :P
+-05-21 17:54:18  bcfcespley: because people do move gangs :/
+-05-21 17:54:19  darp: Community Menu link to a page?
+-05-21 17:54:20  Zorg: Elders and LA are independant of gangs. :/
+-05-21 17:54:22  Tibos: CoE has nothing to do with gangs
+-05-21 17:54:26  Bernard721: Ok.. so we're having an applation process into the LA? How are Elders elected... did we resolve that yet?
+-05-21 17:54:27  Zorg: I dont want it to have any attachment to gangs at all
+-05-21 17:54:33  Angel: Zorg Elders picking who becomes Elder would like to biased choosing... If there was a staff member to take it interest, then brought to the attention of the Elders, it would feel less like a lolly bag, picking the best ones you like...
+-05-21 17:54:36  Pie: create an open forum where the new LA can review Staff and the discussion be viewed by everyone
+-05-21 17:54:41  Pie: but only the LA can post..
+-05-21 17:54:44  Scott: Right now angel
+-05-21 17:54:45  Zorg: As far as I'm concerned one of the rules of the Elder forum will be that gangs dont exist there.
+-05-21 17:54:53  Scott: i like the idea of elders suggesting and applications
+-05-21 17:54:53  Ross: fair enough
+-05-21 17:55:03  Zorg: ooo like a security forum only instead of staff using it...
+-05-21 17:55:04  Zorg: LA members?
+-05-21 17:55:08  bcfcespley: lets face it how is heggs not in coe? {XD}
+-05-21 17:55:08  jonkers: sounds good
+-05-21 17:55:13  Pie: yep
+-05-21 17:55:16  Scott: heggs is in coe ...
+-05-21 17:55:17  Food: Elders reommand people, scott reviews them and makes a dicision?
+-05-21 17:55:20  bcfcespley: oh {XD}
+-05-21 17:55:20  Ross: she is...
+-05-21 17:55:25  Ross: BCFCEEJIT
+-05-21 17:55:29  Zorg: could try that I guess... like a public forum run by legacy affairs
+-05-21 17:55:33  Scott: see i know my own members 8~)
+-05-21 17:55:36  Scott: 8) * :P
+-05-21 17:55:40  Pie: but in security, everyone can post.. in the LA one, remove the option to post for anybody else
+-05-21 17:55:43  darp: Good.
+-05-21 17:55:46  KevinMp: so... players nominate people. staff then chooses from those
+-05-21 17:55:55  KevinMp: and they become elders, who choose LA?
+-05-21 17:56:01  Zorg: erm no
+-05-21 17:56:02  zerocomman: elders choose la
+-05-21 17:56:04  Ross: elders choose the elders...
+-05-21 17:56:08  KevinMp: o other way around. oops
+-05-21 17:56:13  KevinMp: but same thing?
+-05-21 17:56:15  Zorg: Elders choose Elders... Elders choose LA.
+-05-21 17:56:15  Scott: We're going in circles here
+-05-21 17:56:23  Zorg: If you're not an Elder... you have no say in either
+-05-21 17:56:23  KevinMp: :O intriguing :P
+-05-21 17:56:29  Pie: xD
+-05-21 17:56:34  Ross: Lol
+-05-21 17:56:38  Zorg: I asked if people wanted to keep it an elitist invite only group, you guys said yes :P
+-05-21 17:56:39  Bernard721: So we're weeding out the inactives, and they will eventually pick new ones
+-05-21 17:56:40  Tibos: power hungry old people
+-05-21 17:56:47  Scott: I'm guessing myself and Zorg will run Elders and Lucas and Zorg will run LA still
+-05-21 17:56:55  KevinMp: but on what grounds do they pick these people?
+-05-21 17:56:59  Pie: Elders i thought were running LA
+-05-21 17:57:00  Angel: staff gathers those that are interested, filters out the 'not going to happen', then brings rhe list to the attention of the Elders, they decide who amongst the list who would best fit the role, the staff then either agrees with them, suggests an alternat
+-05-21 17:57:01  KevinMp: what prereqs should they have?
+-05-21 17:57:10  Angel: ive, or decides against it, and says why
+-05-21 17:57:11  Zorg: Erm, I doubt I'll be involved in Legacy Affairs... staff decisions have never been something I'm interested in :/
+-05-21 17:57:17  Zorg: that's why I have staff and a staff manager :(
+-05-21 17:57:23  Bernard721: {XD}
+-05-21 17:57:30  Scott: So you're going to butcher my elders
+-05-21 17:57:32  Zorg: I just want to make cool stuff
+-05-21 17:57:42  Food: Lol Zorg. {xd}
+-05-21 17:57:45  Scott: Saying cool, my flag people :d
+-05-21 17:57:54  KevinMp: scott... shush {XD}
+-05-21 17:57:59  KevinMp: we discuss your flag latah! :O
+-05-21 17:58:01  Bernard721: Already been an hour... lets get to the fun stuff...
+-05-21 17:58:06  Zorg: Ok, hmm there was one last thing I wanted to talk about.
+-05-21 17:58:23  Zorg: ...lemme remember what it was
+-05-21 17:58:29  Risque: ::roll::
+-05-21 17:58:31  KevinMp: something about wl perhaps?
+-05-21 17:58:32  jonkers: :/
+-05-21 17:58:32  Scott: Dev, wiki?
+-05-21 17:58:34  Food: Zorg getting old. :O
+-05-21 17:58:39  Tibos: so....recap Elders pick Elders, Elders pick LA people, Security Forum comes back for others to submit wrong staff decisions?
+-05-21 17:58:39  Scott: Destorying apart of the game?
+-05-21 17:58:53  Bernard721: WL/Duel System/Abilities time {ebil}
+-05-21 17:58:57  Ross: combat achievements :D
+-05-21 17:58:57  Pie: that's not what i was aiming at, Tibos
+-05-21 17:58:58  KevinMp: YAY!
+-05-21 17:59:10  Scott: Ross getting his account removed :P
+-05-21 17:59:11  Pie: Security Forum returns for LA to discuss, with everybody else onlooking
+-05-21 17:59:21  Scott: Pie
+-05-21 17:59:24  Scott: gtfo off my color
+-05-21 17:59:27  Tibos: isn't that a bit public?
+-05-21 17:59:30  Pie: Zorg told me to use Purple
+-05-21 17:59:36  bcfcespley: zorg could you tell us the systems your working on, in what order and the rough time scale?
+-05-21 17:59:37  Pie: Why shouldn't it be public?
+-05-21 17:59:50  Pie: how can people have confidence in something they know nothing about?
+-05-21 17:59:51  KevinMp: ok we all wanna no when the BIG update is comin :P
+-05-21 17:59:56  Zorg: Yeah the new stuff I'm working on I guess.
+-05-21 17:59:57  Scott: bcfc right now, Main Page and bug fixes :P and duel
+-05-21 18:00:01  Tibos: that's how LA was and darp was pleased with it
+-05-21 18:00:07  bcfcespley: no what i mean is
+-05-21 18:00:12  Pie: And he was about the only person
+-05-21 18:00:15  bcfcespley: when will he get around to say achievements
+-05-21 18:00:22  Zorg: Ok first, the current player count.
+-05-21 18:00:31  Zorg: It hasn't actually dropped, as such.
+-05-21 18:00:32  Scott: Next few months bcfc
+-05-21 18:00:41  KevinMp: oo before we go to far...
+-05-21 18:00:46  Zorg: What has happened is we've stopped advertising and I've stopped paying attention to our voting sites.
+-05-21 18:00:50  KevinMp: have you considered in game ads yet?
+-05-21 18:00:52  Zorg: Gold listing Legacy and stuff.
+-05-21 18:01:12  Scott: ...
+-05-21 18:01:13  KevinMp: Hmm... im trying to think about how i found this game
+-05-21 18:01:16  Zorg: Basically this is the result of playing the game myself at various level brackets and being deeply unsatisified with the experience.
+-05-21 18:01:17  Scott: we're not having ingame ads
+-05-21 18:01:25  Zorg: It makes me not want to spend money advertising right now.
+-05-21 18:01:29  KevinMp: i dont even remember how i found it
+-05-21 18:01:29  Pascal: get more ways to get subtime, so we have more advertisements means more new players?
+-05-21 18:01:31  bcfcespley: advertisment vid on youtube, its free!
+-05-21 18:01:36  Scott: bcfc
+-05-21 18:01:43  Bernard721: Advertising what though Bcf?
+-05-21 18:01:46  Bernard721: Text?
+-05-21 18:01:47  Bernard721: :/
+-05-21 18:01:47  Scott: how is watching a screen on a browser based game interestic
+-05-21 18:01:49  Scott: OMG
+-05-21 18:01:54  Zorg: The old player count was the result of the current player count + the constant new players coming and going.
+-05-21 18:01:55  Scott: the square changed coor *signs up*
+-05-21 18:01:55  KevinMp: that comes down to selling it :P
+-05-21 18:02:02  Scott: color*
+-05-21 18:02:03  bcfcespley: not like that you idiot
+-05-21 18:02:16  bcfcespley: get someone to make a good video
+-05-21 18:02:16  Angel: work on the achievements
+-05-21 18:02:18  Food: Stay on topic please.
+-05-21 18:02:24  Scott: Cant exactly make Legacy look like anything other than what it is
+-05-21 18:02:24  Zorg: So the drop is purely the result in the stopping of advertising, I could get the player count back to 3000-4000 by starting again.
+-05-21 18:02:25  Angel: so people will want to refer people they like
+-05-21 18:02:31  Angel: and people will get along easier
+-05-21 18:02:33  Zorg: But I'd rather wait until the new combat and things are done.
+-05-21 18:02:38  bcfcespley: you can scott lol
+-05-21 18:02:39  Zorg: And relaunch the game with new advertisements and such.
+-05-21 18:02:40  Tibos: bcf, i'm sure that if you or someone else makes a good video, Zorg would use it
+-05-21 18:02:42  bcfcespley: its called false advertising
+-05-21 18:02:43  KevinMp: can we offer monetary vaule to those who refer people?
+-05-21 18:02:47  bcfcespley: movie makers do it all the time {XD}
+-05-21 18:02:49  KevinMp: other than achievements, like...
+-05-21 18:02:49  Pascal: well get more ways to get subtime...
+-05-21 18:02:52  Zorg: bcfc stop
+-05-21 18:02:54  Scott: Thats illegal by UK law and legacy will be sued
+-05-21 18:02:55  KevinMp: 1k per person that gets to level 10?
+-05-21 18:02:58  Zorg: Like I said I have no interest in advertising at the moment
+-05-21 18:03:01  HappyDays: have we discussed revenue ideas for the game yet to ensure zorg can spend more time on the game ???
+-05-21 18:03:10  Zorg: My revenue is fine.
+-05-21 18:03:15  Bernard721: Referal system needs an overhaul...
+-05-21 18:03:21  Zorg: For now anyway.
+-05-21 18:03:25  HappyDays: :P
+-05-21 18:03:37  HappyDays: So it would be of benefit to ensure a steady stream
+-05-21 18:03:41  HappyDays: For a rainy day
+-05-21 18:04:08  Zorg: I'm not concerned about money, I want to make the game far more fun especially at early levels before relaunching it with new advertisements.
+-05-21 18:04:18  KevinMp: Hmmm
+-05-21 18:04:21  Ross: get the achievements done zorg
+-05-21 18:04:22  Zorg: That is what all the planned changes are about.
+-05-21 18:04:29  Ross: always adds a fun dimension
+-05-21 18:04:31  KevinMp: maybe make the first few levels easier to get?
+-05-21 18:04:33  Zorg: Again achievements are low priority
+-05-21 18:04:34  Food: I agree wi9th ross, we need achievements.
+-05-21 18:04:38  Bernard721: I desire much more in depth role play..
+-05-21 18:04:42  zerocomman: kevinmp this game is already easy enough
+-05-21 18:04:45  Zorg: I'm talking about rebuilding the core stuff that makes the game, not working on small side things
+-05-21 18:04:47  KevinMp: cuz when i logged onto dev, i kind of gave up on leveling.
+-05-21 18:04:48  Pie: Bernard : Join DF
+-05-21 18:04:54  Bernard721: I'll pass.
+-05-21 18:04:55  Pie: they kill you if you don't partake in it
+-05-21 18:04:56  KevinMp: oo the core. ok
+-05-21 18:04:59  zerocomman: it's just boring. if eveyone is honest, they are here 90% for the community
+-05-21 18:05:04  Tibos: {ebil}
+-05-21 18:05:20  Pascal: kind of quests for them? like attack your enemy, congrats you get 100 credits
+-05-21 18:05:26  Scott: yeah but the community cant exactly help everything
+-05-21 18:05:28  Pascal: just basics would do
+-05-21 18:05:29  KevinMp: what were u planning for the new game overhaul?
+-05-21 18:05:35  Scott: 20% of the community cry about legacy daily
+-05-21 18:05:37  KevinMp: we need to knwo about that to incorporate more stuff :P
+-05-21 18:05:41  Zorg: Yes the new combat alone will make warfare and leveling more fun... the other changes... removal of stats, shops and some others are designed to decrease needless complexity in systems.
+-05-21 18:05:44  Pie: All details were posted in blogs? o.0
+-05-21 18:05:53  KevinMp: honestly... we should see how that goes first
+-05-21 18:05:58  Food: Achievements to me : Being able to work towards something and goals, also brings back some competetiveness(Real word?) to the game, which would bring back alot of activity from old and new players.
+-05-21 18:06:09  Bernard721: Make a new tutorial system, where you earn credits/ability points/and stat points for new signups
+-05-21 18:06:13  zerocomman: food nailed it
+-05-21 18:06:18  HappyDays: is the level 80 to 85 thing in the pipeline
+-05-21 18:06:18  Food: I think achievements have alot of potential.
+-05-21 18:06:24  Scott: people have yet to earn the current achievements
+-05-21 18:06:25  Zorg: Yes I agree, achievements worked really well in games like World of Warcraft.
+-05-21 18:06:31  HappyDays: I liked the idea of fighting my way to the top
+-05-21 18:06:43  HappyDays: but dropping if I went inACTIVE
+-05-21 18:06:46  Zorg: But I can't add achievements for systems that are going to be vastly changed by the rebuild.
+-05-21 18:06:52  HappyDays: Gives you something to do when you return again
+-05-21 18:06:58  KevinMp: so we need the new system in first
+-05-21 18:07:02  Zorg: HappyDays that idea would suck with the current combat system though.
+-05-21 18:07:03  Scott: ontop of that theyre not working correctly atm
+-05-21 18:07:08  Tibos: HD that's the spectral item idea
+-05-21 18:07:15  Zorg: The new one I'm designing takes a genuine degree of skill to be good at though, so could work.
+-05-21 18:07:27  Angel: how will it be more fun? are you going to change the look? the same applies with FT's point in the forums, this game is text based, it goes page by page, how can that change? what is this system you seem to be working on? and why wasn't the great tertis
+-05-21 18:07:31  Angel: idea used? :P
+-05-21 18:07:40  Food: No offence to the idea HD suggested, but that will get old quick..just like spectral.
+-05-21 18:07:52  KevinMp: april fools joke ftw {XD}
+-05-21 18:08:03  Tibos: text game != non-interactive
+-05-21 18:08:09  HappyDays: thats not my idea
+-05-21 18:08:16  HappyDays: and i did not suggest it :p
+-05-21 18:08:24  Angel: it is as interactive as it gets
+-05-21 18:08:25  Food: I know, can't recall who did. :P
+-05-21 18:08:31  Zorg: But yeah I've been adding new stuff on top of the game for years and our player count hasn't increased. This is what caused me to take a step back and look at what was wrong with the stuff we have in place already.
+-05-21 18:08:37  Angel: so thoughts for 'more' is limited
+-05-21 18:08:42  Zorg: No amount of new stuff is going to fix the problems, it's time to rebuild the old stuff.
+-05-21 18:08:49  Scott: like clans :(
+-05-21 18:08:58  Zorg: no not like clans
+-05-21 18:09:01  Zorg: clans again are a side system
+-05-21 18:09:06  Ross: go Zorg Thatcher!
+-05-21 18:09:09  HappyDays: zorg can we have a buddy system game wide
+-05-21 18:09:13  Scott: but theyre still old :P
+-05-21 18:09:20  HappyDays: for example noob 1 signs up and gets sent a mail
+-05-21 18:09:25  Zorg: It's the core of the game I'm addressing with these changes, stats, items, fighting, warfare, turns, jobs... the stuff people spend most of their time using.
+-05-21 18:09:30  Scott: We have guides for that HappyDays
+-05-21 18:09:37  HappyDays: saying happysays would be delighted to get to know you
+-05-21 18:09:43  Ross: zorg, is the combat system highest priority then?
+-05-21 18:09:43  Angel: no amount of new stuff is going to fix the problems, you said it yourself, why spend all this time changing it, if the problem remains?
+-05-21 18:09:48  HappyDays: drop him a mail if you wish
+-05-21 18:09:53  HappyDays: to beuild friendships
+-05-21 18:10:00  HappyDays: build
+-05-21 18:10:09  HappyDays: and so creating bonds
+-05-21 18:10:09  Pie: nothing is being added on..
+-05-21 18:10:12  Pie: it's being rebuilt..
+-05-21 18:10:12  Zorg: Anyway I've explained all this in my blog already.
+-05-21 18:10:17  Tibos: indeed
+-05-21 18:10:34  Scott: ok
+-05-21 18:10:48  Scott: I'm now goign to ask gangs to raise any points
+-05-21 18:10:50  Scott: so DF
+-05-21 18:10:56  Scott: do you have any issues you want to raise
+-05-21 18:11:01  jonkers: we do
+-05-21 18:11:04  Tibos: sure
+-05-21 18:11:11  jonkers: Tibos wil out line the main points
+-05-21 18:11:11  Scott: Go ahead
+-05-21 18:11:19  KevinMp: Nows ur chance BoD. send me ur stuff. i already marked whats in the forums
+-05-21 18:11:38  jonkers: Kevin DF are talking.
+-05-21 18:11:44  Tibos: to blunt it out, we think there needs to be a more drastic cost to switching gangs
+-05-21 18:11:49  KevinMp: :*( lol
+-05-21 18:11:52  Tibos: or perhaps a change alltogether
+-05-21 18:11:57  Scott: 500c is alot to a level 20
+-05-21 18:12:00  bcfcespley: you werent complaining last year
+-05-21 18:12:01  Zorg: that was the point of gang reps
+-05-21 18:12:05  jonkers: or a total ban on changing gang during a WL round.
+-05-21 18:12:07  bcfcespley: when everyone was joining you
+-05-21 18:12:07  Zorg: to make it harder to switch
+-05-21 18:12:13  Tibos: bcf, i actually was ;)
+-05-21 18:12:15  Zorg: hush bcfc
+-05-21 18:12:26  Tibos: anyway, 2 ideas crossed our minds
+-05-21 18:12:35  Tibos: 1) increase cost for multiple joins in a period of time
+-05-21 18:12:48  SlickVic: I would suggest a time limit on joining another after leaving one.
+-05-21 18:12:53  Tibos: ex: join DF cost 500c. Join OC a week later cost 1000c
+-05-21 18:12:57  Scott: So for example 500c the first time.. 750 the second and so on ?
+-05-21 18:12:59  SlickVic: 2 weeks or something
+-05-21 18:13:11  Scott: Is gang hopping a big problem ?
+-05-21 18:13:19  Tibos: and the cost gets reset after a small while
+-05-21 18:13:23  Scott: i mean. Its a cost to one gang but a gain to another?
+-05-21 18:13:26  Pie: it's a game.. if yuo're not having fun in a gang you joined, why should you have to stay there? -.-
+-05-21 18:13:27  Food: It's a game, people should be free to come and go as they wish on here, the system we have now is fine.
+-05-21 18:13:34  zerocomman: however, it drives who dominates the wl each round
+-05-21 18:13:40  zerocomman: i've been both on winning and losing sides of that
+-05-21 18:13:40  Tibos: another idea is from football
+-05-21 18:13:41  SlickVic: I don't consider it a problem
+-05-21 18:14:00  Tibos: to minimize the interference in WL strategy, have a transfer window of 2 weeks at the start of each round
+-05-21 18:14:01  Scott: ah but WF isnt just the members
+-05-21 18:14:03  Ross: competitive balance is worse than MLB in this game {XD}
+-05-21 18:14:06  Tibos: and 2 weeks after joining the game
+-05-21 18:14:07  Scott: tatics come into play
+-05-21 18:14:23  zerocomman: tactics are useless if you lack sheer numbers scott
+-05-21 18:14:29  Ross: you need to make the repurcussions for leaving gangs much higher
+-05-21 18:14:31  Angel: you don't penalise people staying and you shouldn't penalise them leaving, last time i checked, there is nothing against the rules about leaving a gang, just getting kicked by it...
+-05-21 18:14:34  Zorg: I dont think forcing players to stay in gangs they do not wish to be in by cost or time limits solves anything.
+-05-21 18:14:38  Scott: I've seen a team of 3 take down a building
+-05-21 18:15:00  Scott: when i was a player myself and base would camp hq's with cloak so lower members could square grab
+-05-21 18:15:04  Ross: or more incentives to stay in gangs longer
+-05-21 18:15:09  Ross: gang loyalty honors banners please :D
+-05-21 18:15:14  Tibos: that's a fair idea Ross
+-05-21 18:15:19  Scott: Like banners?
+-05-21 18:15:25  Ross: indeed
+-05-21 18:15:34  Scott: hmm
+-05-21 18:15:35  Zorg: I think if all the gangs find it a problem they could come with ideas between themselves to stop it.
+-05-21 18:15:36  Rotten: Ross just wants more banners
+-05-21 18:15:36  HappyDays: who cares about banners
+-05-21 18:15:41  Ross: i do
+-05-21 18:15:43  Angel: that doesn't help
+-05-21 18:15:48  Pascal: I do
+-05-21 18:15:49  Angel: as soon as they get the banner
+-05-21 18:15:51  Tibos: @Zorg in the Senate Forum :P
+-05-21 18:15:59  Angel: they will want to leave to get the othr gang related banners
+-05-21 18:16:01  Ross: i've been in TC over 4 years
+-05-21 18:16:06  Ross: noone has na excuse to leave gangs
+-05-21 18:16:10  Ross: an*
+-05-21 18:16:12  HappyDays: sure they do
+-05-21 18:16:21  Zorg: The problem is when someone leaves your gang you're annoyed, when someone joins your gang you're happy... you give little consideration to who they gang hopped through to get to you.
+-05-21 18:16:21  Bernard721: Yikes.
+-05-21 18:16:24  Food: Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Time in gang, etc..going to be under the new achievements Bcfc?
+-05-21 18:16:44  Ross: just have it as an honours banner
+-05-21 18:16:46  Zorg: If I was running a gang I'd black list those who left after a short period of time, and then deny them entry if they tried to come back...
+-05-21 18:16:48  bcfcespley: yeah food i have made it
+-05-21 18:16:49  Zorg: But that's just me
+-05-21 18:16:50  Rotten: I have a idea
+-05-21 18:17:03  bcfcespley: i did make loyalty achievements
+-05-21 18:17:05  Tibos: you banned that Zorg :P
+-05-21 18:17:11  Food: There you go. :O
+-05-21 18:17:14  Rotten: Could we have some sort of drafting for gangs? Like all the hoppers could be held in a draft
+-05-21 18:17:25  Ross: wouldnt work
+-05-21 18:17:30  HappyDays: how would that work rotten ??
+-05-21 18:17:30  Ross: too much backlash
+-05-21 18:17:33  KevinMp: they would leave for the gang they wanna b in :P
+-05-21 18:17:38  Zorg: Make a rule... if you leave this gang and then come back you must spend 2 months at rank 1 before progressing...
+-05-21 18:17:41  Angel: there you go again penalising peoples chooses to be different...
+-05-21 18:17:47  Rotten: not my idea hd just passing on the word
+-05-21 18:17:49  Scott: The problem with gang hopping is
+-05-21 18:17:50  bcfcespley: ranks are useless lol
+-05-21 18:17:53  Scott: its their choice to
+-05-21 18:17:54  bcfcespley: its just a number to me
+-05-21 18:17:57  Ross: noone cares enough for ranks anymore
+-05-21 18:18:04  zerocomman: yea rank 1 as punishment does nothing
+-05-21 18:18:07  Scott: if they dont liek one gang they will continue playing if they switch
+-05-21 18:18:08  Pie: not your idea?
+-05-21 18:18:09  Pie: %u05D3
+-05-21 18:18:15  Pie: 23:17:37 &#91;Rotten&#93; I have a idea
+-05-21 18:18:16  Bernard721: Going to cut my time here short... The discussions seem to be going really swimmingly.. I'll enjoy skimming the log tomorrow
+-05-21 18:18:39  Zorg: I just dont see any suggestions that fix anything, if it is a problem.
+-05-21 18:18:43  Food: I don't think there should be any penalty for leaving gangs, as I said..it's a game, people should be free to come and go, each gang has there own merits and appeals, I see no harm in people leaving one to check out another.
+-05-21 18:18:53  Bernard721: Adios everyone ::yes::
+-05-21 18:18:54  Zorg: You think someone is going to come help you in the wasteland if they're forced to stay due to a time limit or lack of credits?
+-05-21 18:19:01  zerocomman: someone in df suggested that if someone switches gangs mid-map, they are not allowed access to wl until reset
+-05-21 18:19:02  Angel: it's not a problem...
+-05-21 18:19:05  HappyDays: oooooooooo did we discuss gang banks
+-05-21 18:19:14  Angel: If it annoys you big deal, it happens everywhere
+-05-21 18:19:26  Angel: people leave jobs for reasons that are none of your business
+-05-21 18:19:28  Scott: one gang at a time happydays
+-05-21 18:19:30  Zorg: ...again zero, people are not going to be forced in to helping a gang they do not wish to be part of
+-05-21 18:19:35  Pie: denying access to wl is a horrible idea
+-05-21 18:19:36  Tibos: fair enough
+-05-21 18:19:45  Zorg: Forcing them to stay until the WL reset would only make them if anything... try to sabotage your efforts
+-05-21 18:19:47  zerocomman: just speaking up for my peeps
+-05-21 18:19:53  Pie: we know
+-05-21 18:19:53  Tibos: should we move on to our second point?
+-05-21 18:19:54  Pie: xD
+-05-21 18:19:58  bcfcespley: oh thats what i wanted to discuss, the stand storage system {XD}
+-05-21 18:19:59  Zorg: yes
+-05-21 18:20:01  Scott: Yeah
+-05-21 18:20:06  Scott: before we go in circles again
+-05-21 18:20:17  Tibos: this is a rather touchy subject as it involves a lot of coding
+-05-21 18:20:26  Scott: heh
+-05-21 18:20:35  Tibos: i recently started a thread in Main Forum regarding the creation of a 5th gang
+-05-21 18:20:37  Pie: i can hear the answer already
+-05-21 18:20:52  Zorg: The player count is lower than when gangs were implemented and you want a new gang?
+-05-21 18:20:52  Tibos: this has received quite a lot of support from players and very little critiques
+-05-21 18:21:26  Tibos: yes and the main argument is that it would enchance the joy of warfare :D
+-05-21 18:21:36  Scott: WF would need a total rework
+-05-21 18:21:36  Angel: you try to abolish gang hopping, and yet add another gang to hop too?
+-05-21 18:21:41  darp: lol
+-05-21 18:21:42  Zorg: I can give you plenty of critique if you wish.
+-05-21 18:21:45  bcfcespley: {XD}
+-05-21 18:21:45  Scott: as most maps are catered for 4 hq's
+-05-21 18:21:45  Tibos: and it would increase the usefullness of the gang ranks
+-05-21 18:21:47  Rotten: make it 20x20 for 5 gangs
+-05-21 18:21:59  Tibos: sure,
+-05-21 18:22:01  KevinMp: would a square make sense anymore at that point?
+-05-21 18:22:09  Zorg: For a start... blue, red, yellow, green and purple for avatars
+-05-21 18:22:13  KevinMp: new maps would have to be created
+-05-21 18:22:15  Zorg: The only color left for a new gang is Orange
+-05-21 18:22:20  Zorg: bcfc is turning in his grave at that idea
+-05-21 18:22:23  Pie: purple for staff*?
+-05-21 18:22:25  Tibos: Brown
+-05-21 18:22:25  bcfcespley: lmao
+-05-21 18:22:30  Angel: i don't want to see a 5th gang
+-05-21 18:22:32  bcfcespley: shut up {XD}
+-05-21 18:22:32  darp: Even were it a good idea (and it's not) before all the updates isn't really the time to be thinking about this.
+-05-21 18:22:34  Zorg: Brown is just dark orange -_-
+-05-21 18:22:39  zerocomman: so we don't have a 5th gang just because bcfc doesn't like orange :/
+-05-21 18:22:57  bcfcespley: he was joking...
+-05-21 18:22:59  Zorg: No we dont have a 5th gang because Orange is very close to yellow and red. -_-
+-05-21 18:23:04  darp: Zorg, put the hammer down.
+-05-21 18:23:04  Scott: You dont have a 5th gang because we need to see a real reason for you to need one
+-05-21 18:23:07  Zorg: But no thats not the only problem
+-05-21 18:23:33  Zorg: For a start what do you think a 5th gang would address? what long term problems are going to be fixed by the number 5 instead of 4?... soon it would be populated by people I'm sure you'd dislike just as much
+-05-21 18:23:49  Tibos: gang alliances
+-05-21 18:23:49  Zorg: Soon it will have a council just like the other gangs and be no different... it wont be new it will just be ANOTHER gang
+-05-21 18:23:54  Tibos: boredom in WL
+-05-21 18:24:03  Angel: we don't want gang alliances
+-05-21 18:24:05  bcfcespley: it would be like engl;and and immigrants...
+-05-21 18:24:05  Scott: WL is catered for 4 HQ's
+-05-21 18:24:07  darp: Only you can prevent forest fires... and gang alliances.
+-05-21 18:24:08  bcfcespley: over crowded!!
+-05-21 18:24:09  Zorg: Again not even close to long term solutions, in 6 months you'll just want a 6th gang
+-05-21 18:24:16  Angel: If everyone played 1v1v1v1 problem is fixed
+-05-21 18:24:18  KevinMp: it would only be a temporary fix, and thats not something we can take away as easily as put it in the system
+-05-21 18:24:22  darp: And actually 6 gangs makes more sense than 5. :P
+-05-21 18:24:29  Zorg: exactly you're talking about a temporary fix
+-05-21 18:24:41  Zorg: one that will create more long term problems than anything
+-05-21 18:24:48  KevinMp: once we put it in the system, you cant take it out
+-05-21 18:24:50  bcfcespley: maps would have to be re made, new systems, new clothing, new weapons, new everything
+-05-21 18:24:53  bcfcespley: i just dont see it {XD}
+-05-21 18:24:53  Angel: then they'd go for lucky number 7
+-05-21 18:24:55  Scott: the imbalence of gangs for the first few months :/
+-05-21 18:24:58  Angel: :P
+-05-21 18:25:02  Scott: inbalance*
+-05-21 18:25:03  KevinMp: people would want to remain in their 5th gang, and would get pissy if it was taken away
+-05-21 18:25:05  Angel: 4 is enough
+-05-21 18:25:16  Scott: people get pissy at anything
+-05-21 18:25:17  Zorg: yes you're talking a ton of work for lots of people to make it happen all for a fix that will amuse people for a couple of months
+-05-21 18:25:19  Zorg: and then be forgotten
+-05-21 18:25:28  Scott: right
+-05-21 18:25:34  Scott: ill say thats that idea wrapped up
+-05-21 18:25:40  jonkers: Next idea?
+-05-21 18:25:40  Tibos: hm....
+-05-21 18:25:42  Scott: DF any last points ?
+-05-21 18:25:52  Tibos: fair enough
+-05-21 18:26:06  zerocomman: yea, 2 more suggestions
+-05-21 18:26:11  HappyDays: :x
+-05-21 18:26:15  Zorg: Every change I implement is intended to be a permanent fix for a problem.
+-05-21 18:26:24  jonkers: shh HD you will get your turn
+-05-21 18:26:26  Zorg: ...apart from Spectral Items, that was just something shinny to distract people.
+-05-21 18:26:33  Scott: XD
+-05-21 18:26:39  Zorg: Ok are DF done?
+-05-21 18:26:43  jonkers: no
+-05-21 18:26:50  Scott: then hurry up please
+-05-21 18:26:56  Tibos: Zero?
+-05-21 18:27:01  Pie: we're running 90 mins..
+-05-21 18:27:02  Zorg: Due to the length of time this is taking you to type.
+-05-21 18:27:05  Zorg: I'm gonna say no -_-
+-05-21 18:27:08  Scott: TC
+-05-21 18:27:11  Scott: any points
+-05-21 18:27:20  Scott: ...
+-05-21 18:27:27  Zorg: If it takes you that long to explain it, I'm not implementing it lol
+-05-21 18:27:27  Pascal: one
+-05-21 18:27:35  Pascal: im lagging :x
+-05-21 18:27:39  Scott: great
+-05-21 18:27:41  zerocomman: i was waiting for you to pay attention rather than continue blabbing
+-05-21 18:27:42  Zorg: and I'm bored
+-05-21 18:27:43  007Ben: ive got some too :P
+-05-21 18:27:48  Ross: yeah can we have honours banners for gang loyalty?
+-05-21 18:27:51  Pascal: say it ben
+-05-21 18:27:52  Scott: No.
+-05-21 18:27:54  Zorg: I was sitting here for 2 minutes waiting for you to type it dude
+-05-21 18:28:10  zerocomman: ability to counteract radiance
+-05-21 18:28:20  zerocomman: and lastly, staff favor should not benefit combat
+-05-21 18:28:29  Angel: not your turn zero
+-05-21 18:28:34  Zorg: this kind of stuff can go in the suggestions forum.
+-05-21 18:28:35  Scott: +3 and more is really rare
+-05-21 18:28:37  Zorg: :/
+-05-21 18:28:43  007Ben: i really dont see the point of needing to ask permission to attack people with the new attack system. and with free hunting everyone would get to Av in no-time
+-05-21 18:28:51  Scott: ask.. permission ?
+-05-21 18:28:56  Zorg: ^- thats more like the stuff i wanted to hear
+-05-21 18:29:00  Zorg: Not just suggestion forum stuff
+-05-21 18:29:08  007Ben: like they need to acceot in the duel
+-05-21 18:29:12  Scott: oh yeah
+-05-21 18:29:19  Scott: sorry my mind is in the old system XD
+-05-21 18:29:22  Zorg: The new combat system requires both sides of the fight to be active as it requires the selection of abilities....
+-05-21 18:29:28  007Ben: like this is an assassin game, i dont need to ask to attack someone :P
+-05-21 18:29:31  Food: Thanks ben, stealing my one thing I had in mind. *cries*
+-05-21 18:29:39  SlickVic: for all levels?
+-05-21 18:29:41  007Ben: lol
+-05-21 18:30:14  Zorg: So the alternative would be you attack people who are ultimately defenceless...offline even... which is pointless.
+-05-21 18:30:24  Scott: same system we have now..
+-05-21 18:30:43  Scott: so really wed just be putting new GFx and coding but keeping the old system
+-05-21 18:30:53  Food: Wondering, can't we have a duel system and a PVP system like we have now?
+-05-21 18:30:54  Tibos: i think we really need to see it in action before we can criticize it
+-05-21 18:30:56  Pascal: isn't that the same hunting will going to be then?
+-05-21 18:30:56  SlickVic: so then hunting would be the main leveling system then?
+-05-21 18:30:58  Zorg: Basically the alternative for someone online would be a pop up that interupted whatever you're doing saying... you're being attacked now you must go to the attack screen and defend yourself.
+-05-21 18:31:25  Pie: can me and Scott have a duel on Dev?
+-05-21 18:31:26  007Ben: or the dueling system could be a way to fight for c's?
+-05-21 18:31:34  007Ben: like a bet
+-05-21 18:31:36  zerocomman: the sooner you roll this out on dev, the sooner we can actually give you valid feedback
+-05-21 18:31:42  Zorg: The duel page is a page that says "Insert duel page here." Pie -_-
+-05-21 18:31:50  Ross: Lol
+-05-21 18:31:53  Pie: i'm not gonna try, Zorg... xD
+-05-21 18:31:56  Pie: last time i got stuck -.-
+-05-21 18:32:02  jonkers: Do we have a time frame for this on dev?
+-05-21 18:32:13  Zorg: The point is Hive fighting is pointless, the only time it is remotely even useful in the current system is sniping people as they run to heal.
+-05-21 18:32:35  Zorg: Which will be totally irralevent in the new system anyway, because you'll have players heavily specialized as Medics out in warfare with you anyway.
+-05-21 18:32:44  KevinMp: 8)
+-05-21 18:32:52  Scott: ok
+-05-21 18:32:59  Scott: done?
+-05-21 18:33:07  KevinMp: nooo BoD's turn :x
+-05-21 18:33:07  bcfcespley: will we be able to switch between them or once we pick we have to stay as that speciality?
+-05-21 18:33:08  Zorg: The new system is still being designed.
+-05-21 18:33:10  Food: I need high pvp, I will be lost without it. :(
+-05-21 18:33:10  Pie: hive fighting also gains you exp
+-05-21 18:33:11  Pie: xD
+-05-21 18:33:14  Food: Hive*
+-05-21 18:33:20  Zorg: But it will come together in a way that makes sense, and you'll understand why fighting in the hive would be pointless.
+-05-21 18:33:24  KevinMp: bcfcespley i think so
+-05-21 18:33:29  Food: Take my brother instead of PVP!
+-05-21 18:33:38  Scott: We dont want him
+-05-21 18:33:41  Food: Gah
+-05-21 18:33:44  007Ben: {XD}
+-05-21 18:33:48  Scott: Right
+-05-21 18:33:50  darp: We didn't address DF's last two points.
+-05-21 18:33:53  Zorg: I understand the desire to kill players who do not wish to fight you....
+-05-21 18:33:59  KevinMp: :P
+-05-21 18:34:02  Angel: It wasn't DF's turn
+-05-21 18:34:05  Angel: :P
+-05-21 18:34:05  Scott: the suggestion forum points ?
+-05-21 18:34:05  Zorg: Thats why I play on PvP servers in every MMO I ever played.
+-05-21 18:34:17  Zorg: But in Legacy death is meaningless anyway for the most part.
+-05-21 18:34:21  zerocomman: our suggestions weren't worthy darp
+-05-21 18:34:32  Scott: right
+-05-21 18:34:38  zerocomman: mostly cuz i'm the one doing the suggesting :p
+-05-21 18:34:41  Zorg: ability to counteract radiance... no
+-05-21 18:34:56  Zorg: as radiance is not a combat advantage it just gives someone time to sit and do nothing
+-05-21 18:34:58  bcfcespley: radiance removing items, yes :P
+-05-21 18:35:00  Zorg: i see no need to counteract it
+-05-21 18:35:02  jonkers: expo removing items ?
+-05-21 18:35:09  Zorg: plus it kind of ruins the point of it
+-05-21 18:35:17  jonkers: even though you were working on them a year ago?
+-05-21 18:35:21  Scott: expo items are in the tunnel atm
+-05-21 18:35:27  Scott: havnt started planning for them
+-05-21 18:35:29  Zorg: staff favor effecting combat... kind of agree, but it will have very little effect in the new combat system anyway
+-05-21 18:35:41  Food: We were suppose to get exposure removing items as per last LegCon, Someone dropped the ball. *Blames Scott*
+-05-21 18:35:42  Zorg: I'm waiting for bcfc to draw them for me.
+-05-21 18:35:44  zerocomman: so no harm getting rid of these benefits in the meantime
+-05-21 18:35:45  Risque: Expo removing items were discussed at the last LegCon :/
+-05-21 18:35:49  bcfcespley: you what
+-05-21 18:35:54  bcfcespley: i drew you one ages ago lol
+-05-21 18:35:59  Zorg: I asked you like 5 months ago dude, you never sent them!
+-05-21 18:36:03  bcfcespley: yes i did"
+-05-21 18:36:05  Scott: You two
+-05-21 18:36:07  Scott: handbags away
+-05-21 18:36:09  bcfcespley: it was a pill half silver
+-05-21 18:36:10  Zorg: Never arrived at my end
+-05-21 18:36:13  jonkers: I would get fae to :P
+-05-21 18:36:13  Ross: the count attack to radiance is waiting 1 minute
+-05-21 18:36:13  Scott: SHUT UP
+-05-21 18:36:14  Ross: {XD}
+-05-21 18:36:16  Tibos: send them again tonight and add them tomorrow
+-05-21 18:36:19  Tibos: everyone is happy
+-05-21 18:36:20  Zorg: Who did you sent it to? cause it wasn't me?
+-05-21 18:36:26  Zorg: *send
+-05-21 18:36:28  bcfcespley: it was and you even commented on it lol
+-05-21 18:36:36  bcfcespley: id re send it but my old laptop blew up {XD}
+-05-21 18:36:41  Scott: Dont drop it then
+-05-21 18:36:43  Tibos: and get Legacy Affairs to see who's fault it is
+-05-21 18:36:43  Pascal: wasteland rewards for gang members instead of just a trophy, based on their total wasteland points?
+-05-21 18:36:43  Scott: doofus
+-05-21 18:36:45  Zorg: redraw it
+-05-21 18:36:56  darp: Hahaha
+-05-21 18:36:57  bcfcespley: lol
+-05-21 18:36:58  Scott: WL rewards ...
+-05-21 18:36:59  bcfcespley: nice
+-05-21 18:37:06  Zorg: Discussed when WL was introduced, declined.
+-05-21 18:37:11  KevinMp: is this still "DF's Ideas" -_-
+-05-21 18:37:18  jonkers: yes
+-05-21 18:37:28  Pie: i thought this was TC
+-05-21 18:37:32  Tibos: we are done i think
+-05-21 18:37:33  Food: {xd}
+-05-21 18:37:33  Zorg: No just zero was throwing his toys out of the pram cause I didn't answer him
+-05-21 18:37:37  Scott: Her*
+-05-21 18:37:43  jonkers: Zero is a she darp :)
+-05-21 18:37:48  jonkers: darp
+-05-21 18:37:52  jonkers: zorg
+-05-21 18:37:53  Pie: everybody is a guy in here.. pssh
+-05-21 18:37:53  Zorg: o.O
+-05-21 18:37:54  zerocomman: i'm a she zorg
+-05-21 18:38:00  darp: I am aware.
+-05-21 18:38:04  Scott: Anyway
+-05-21 18:38:07  Scott: BoD
+-05-21 18:38:10  Scott: any points
+-05-21 18:38:11  darp: Girls have innies.
+-05-21 18:38:18  KevinMp: yes! someone brought something up to me
+-05-21 18:38:22  Pascal: next
+-05-21 18:38:22  Scott: Great.
+-05-21 18:38:30  Scott: XD
+-05-21 18:38:30  KevinMp: this player says he dropped a bunch of credits into hunting
+-05-21 18:38:30  Scott: would you like to tell us what
+-05-21 18:38:35  Pascal: gang
+-05-21 18:38:37  Scott: oh god
+-05-21 18:38:44  KevinMp: the new updates mean people will get avatar for free?
+-05-21 18:38:48  Scott: is this going to be a bug report int he form of a question
+-05-21 18:38:49  Zorg: cool story, tell it again
+-05-21 18:38:50  KevinMp: would this person get this money back?
+-05-21 18:38:56  Pie: lol
+-05-21 18:39:01  Pascal: no tc is done
+-05-21 18:39:02  Pascal: XD
+-05-21 18:39:16  Zorg: yeah I'm going to refund 4 years of hunting, tell him to expect a bajillion credits in the mail shortly
+-05-21 18:39:23  Scott: XD
+-05-21 18:39:24  bcfcespley: {XD}
+-05-21 18:39:24  Risque: rofl
+-05-21 18:39:25  KevinMp: -_- thank you zorg lmao
+-05-21 18:39:27  Tibos: {xd}
+-05-21 18:39:32  jonkers: woop
+-05-21 18:39:33  KevinMp: so hunting will cost money in the new system then?
+-05-21 18:39:34  Zorg: There are people who leveled before hunting existed
+-05-21 18:39:39  Zorg: there are people who leveled after it was added
+-05-21 18:39:47  Scott: ok
+-05-21 18:39:47  Zorg: There are people who leveled before gangs existed so could attack anyone
+-05-21 18:39:55  Zorg: during midnight revives... the game changes... leveling changes
+-05-21 18:40:01  Zorg: It is not my intention to make anything easier or cheaper
+-05-21 18:40:09  Zorg: and I will make the changes needed to balance it to the best of my ability
+-05-21 18:40:24  KevinMp: so hunting, if its still in the game, will continue to cost money?
+-05-21 18:40:28  Scott: this is going to be a long blog
+-05-21 18:40:29  Zorg: I like the current amount of time it takes to get to Avatar and have no intention of decreasing it
+-05-21 18:40:36  Scott: kevinmp
+-05-21 18:40:36  Ross: to be fair zorg
+-05-21 18:40:42  Scott: im sure that has been answered ina  blog
+-05-21 18:40:46  Zorg: Hunting will be free, costs will be introduced in different areas
+-05-21 18:40:48  Ross: you mae things easier when you allowed the transfers of credits and items legally....
+-05-21 18:40:53  Ross: made*
+-05-21 18:40:54  KevinMp: allright im all good then
+-05-21 18:40:58  darp: The ones I am aware of, LA and COE, were addressed.
+-05-21 18:41:10  Zorg: Hunting is just taking the place of player search &gt; attack player
+-05-21 18:41:43  Zorg: as that system sucks
+-05-21 18:41:48  Scott: ok
+-05-21 18:41:54  Scott: anymore points BoD?
+-05-21 18:41:59  Angel: since this is dragging on can i make my point as it is relevant to this particular topic?
+-05-21 18:42:01  Angel: :P
+-05-21 18:42:05  Scott: go for it
+-05-21 18:42:08  Food: How dare you insult PVP *Votes to kill Zorg in his sleep*
+-05-21 18:42:13  Angel: So with the new dual system, how will it work within the wl, do you enter a square and wait for someone to 'accept' Killing somebody offline isn't stupid when they are taking your squares now is it? so why should they get rewarded being offline, it should
+-05-21 18:42:25  Angel: be like an off guard type thing, a premptive strike of sorts
+-05-21 18:42:27  Ross: ...
+-05-21 18:42:34  Tibos: duels are hive only
+-05-21 18:42:37  Ross: why on earth would it apply to the WL?
+-05-21 18:42:39  Pie: ...
+-05-21 18:42:41  Ross: think before you type -_-
+-05-21 18:42:42  Zorg: Ok other people are answering this one for me :D
+-05-21 18:42:46  jonkers: isnt zorg playing with roaming guards?
+-05-21 18:42:50  Scott: yeah
+-05-21 18:42:53  Angel: the game is changing, but what about wl?
+-05-21 18:42:54  Pie: you don't have to accept to fight in the wl
+-05-21 18:42:57  Scott: we're calling them evil little buggers
+-05-21 18:43:01  Pie: you just.. fight..
+-05-21 18:43:04  Pie: and if they're not there
+-05-21 18:43:07  Pie: you get no resistance
+-05-21 18:43:08  Angel: is it remaining the same?
+-05-21 18:43:09  Pascal: you die
+-05-21 18:43:14  jonkers: Care to explain more about these guards?
+-05-21 18:43:16  Zorg: WF is being turned in to one giant AJAX / Javascript display that will incorporate both combat and the current warfare stuff.... you'll never changes pages to fight multiple people in your location / use abilities / etc
+-05-21 18:43:17  KevinMp: so afk = death :O
+-05-21 18:43:19  Scott: WF is being redone next year i would imagine
+-05-21 18:43:22  SlickVic: afk will be suicide
+-05-21 18:43:29  SlickVic: I like it
+-05-21 18:43:34  KevinMp: :P
+-05-21 18:43:39  Zorg: Yeah the idea of guards
+-05-21 18:43:59  Zorg: Is to make them like players only with special unique abilities that wander around
+-05-21 18:44:14  Zorg: So your HQ may be patrolled by a big boss style NPC with cool abilities that takes a few people to kill
+-05-21 18:44:24  Zorg: Your outer borders may be patrolled by simpler NPCs that patrol in packs
+-05-21 18:44:24  KevinMp: so will non avs b able to kill afk avatars then? :O
+-05-21 18:44:27  Scott: Goes well with a radar ability
+-05-21 18:44:28  Scott: :P
+-05-21 18:44:33  jonkers: are you planning changes to the maps?
+-05-21 18:44:35  Scott: anyone afk
+-05-21 18:44:38  Zorg: And enemy territory may even be entered by Scout NPCs that infilitrate and attack unsuspecting players.
+-05-21 18:44:41  Scott: will be pretty much jumped by guards
+-05-21 18:44:44  Scott: if players dont get them
+-05-21 18:44:46  Zorg: Thats the grand scope, how it will actually turn out is unknown right now
+-05-21 18:44:59  Scott: right
+-05-21 18:45:01  Zorg: No changed planned to the maps right now
+-05-21 18:45:04  Zorg: *changes
+-05-21 18:45:08  Angel: but what if the person was not afk, just a slower speed internet?
+-05-21 18:45:18  Zorg: Depends how slow :/
+-05-21 18:45:20  Scott: then we ban dialup XD
+-05-21 18:45:42  Angel: it would give an unfair advantage if self defense is gone
+-05-21 18:45:48  Tibos: once the page is loaded (one page!!!), the other transfers should be extra small
+-05-21 18:45:54  Zorg: The combat system will be automated... kind of, you'll attack every 5 seconds or so and pick abilities in advance. So it's not like click as fast as you can.
+-05-21 18:46:03  bcfcespley: ahh
+-05-21 18:46:12  Angel: that makes more sense
+-05-21 18:46:17  Angel: ok i'm done
+-05-21 18:46:20  Scott: sounds like final fantasy :P
+-05-21 18:46:29  darp: I'm done.
+-05-21 18:46:29  Angel: yeah :P
+-05-21 18:46:32  Scott: ok
+-05-21 18:46:33  Scott: OC
+-05-21 18:46:36  bcfcespley: i prefer killing people in 2 seconds {XD}
+-05-21 18:46:37  Scott: last points please
+-05-21 18:46:37  Pascal: souds like pokemon
+-05-21 18:46:38  Food: I'll start.
+-05-21 18:46:39  Zorg: http://dev.legacy-game.net/sandbox/test.htm
+-05-21 18:46:44  Zorg: That's what the blue bar is on that
+-05-21 18:46:50  Food: First off, Bcfc..rank 10 items now please.
+-05-21 18:46:51  Pascal: *sounds
+-05-21 18:46:53  KevinMp: :O
+-05-21 18:46:54  Zorg: The timer that will auto-attack for you... or use abilities you decide on in advance
+-05-21 18:47:04  Food: Seond, we should consider drops from roaming guards in WL!
+-05-21 18:47:23  Zorg: So you click the head shot ability and it is executed at the end of that bar instead of your auto-attack
+-05-21 18:47:39  Angel: that works :)
+-05-21 18:47:42  Zorg: Yes they would have drops, especially each gangs "boss npc" that patrols their HQ
+-05-21 18:48:00  Food: Alright, HD has a few things to adress, HD please.
+-05-21 18:48:07  Scott: HAPPYDAYS
+-05-21 18:48:15  HappyDays: FUNDING
+-05-21 18:48:18  HappyDays: ban it
+-05-21 18:48:37  Zorg: Only well trained Rogues will be anywhere near enemy HQs alone if their boss NPC is alive.
+-05-21 18:48:44  Scott: by funding
+-05-21 18:48:49  Scott: do you mean same ip transfers?
+-05-21 18:48:58  Scott: people quitting and leaving credits?
+-05-21 18:49:01  Zorg: I think he means departure gifts?
+-05-21 18:49:04  HappyDays: As in players getting large tranfers of credits
+-05-21 18:49:10  Scott: but what category
+-05-21 18:49:12  Zorg: Ok guess not
+-05-21 18:49:14  Scott: we can ban everything :s
+-05-21 18:49:17  Scott: cant*
+-05-21 18:49:21  HappyDays: Or pricy items
+-05-21 18:49:28  HappyDays: For examply a free rail gun
+-05-21 18:49:29  Rotten: like medo
+-05-21 18:49:30  jonkers: side question zorg will a gang be able to tell if another gangs boss NPC is alive/dead?
+-05-21 18:49:35  HappyDays: And going away gifts
+-05-21 18:49:41  Risque: What do you consider a large transfer of credits?
+-05-21 18:49:44  HappyDays: Also large insane loans
+-05-21 18:49:46  Scott: problem with away girfts is
+-05-21 18:49:50  Scott: you can say yes ban them
+-05-21 18:49:50  Food: I think we should save this for a good CoE debate, if we discuss funding here all hell will break loose.
+-05-21 18:49:54  Zorg: With glance or wandering around cloaked jonkers
+-05-21 18:49:55  Scott: getting those items is another story
+-05-21 18:49:55  HappyDays: that would take years to pay off should be banned
+-05-21 18:50:08  Scott: Right
+-05-21 18:50:14  Zorg: Although boss npcs may periodically scan their area &gt;:)
+-05-21 18:50:22  Risque: Does OC have the floor or not? O.o
+-05-21 18:50:27  HappyDays: ;/
+-05-21 18:50:27  jonkers: no
+-05-21 18:50:36  bcfcespley: i know yeah
+-05-21 18:50:36  Scott: We're on transfers atm
+-05-21 18:50:42  Scott: its hard to say
+-05-21 18:50:43  Zorg: Yeah HappyDays extreme left wing views can be discussed in the Elders forum
+-05-21 18:50:54  HappyDays: lol thanks zorg {xd}
+-05-21 18:50:56  Scott: thats best
+-05-21 18:50:58  HappyDays: but you love me ;p
+-05-21 18:50:59  Scott: btw zorg
+-05-21 18:51:03  Tibos: when can we submit the elder decision to you?
+-05-21 18:51:03  Zorg: Personally I think all your ideas are insane. &gt;.&lt;
+-05-21 18:51:08  Scott: when elders is redone can we have a clean forum?
+-05-21 18:51:09  HappyDays: my second point coding gang banks
+-05-21 18:51:12  bcfcespley: When will storage be user friendly?!?!
+-05-21 18:51:22  HappyDays: and setting maz amount of spending monthly
+-05-21 18:51:23  Scott: this is legacy bcfc :P
+-05-21 18:51:27  HappyDays: *max
+-05-21 18:51:28  Zorg: It is user friendly to people who dont have a million items.
+-05-21 18:51:32  HappyDays: to create strategy
+-05-21 18:51:35  Scott: lol
+-05-21 18:51:44  Scott: 23:50:53 &#91;Scott&#93; when elders is redone can we have a clean forum?
+-05-21 18:51:45  HappyDays: that way you have to budget
+-05-21 18:51:55  Ross: zorg honours banner for gang loyalty? :D
+-05-21 18:51:58  Scott: Ross
+-05-21 18:51:59  Zorg: sure
+-05-21 18:52:01  HappyDays: and everything is more transparent
+-05-21 18:52:02  bcfcespley: so you created storage intending people to add like 6 items?
+-05-21 18:52:03  Scott: No
+-05-21 18:52:06  Zorg: to clean forum not banner lol
+-05-21 18:52:12  Scott: Ok
+-05-21 18:52:21  Scott: Any last points or can i wrap up ?
+-05-21 18:52:23  Zorg: I'll fix it bcfc, it's just not high on my list of stuff to do
+-05-21 18:52:24  zerocomman: bcfc you are the outlier
+-05-21 18:52:34  Zorg: If you want to move an item 100 places to the left just message me and I'll do it for you lol
+-05-21 18:52:34  Food: Risque, anything to add?
+-05-21 18:52:43  bcfcespley: lol {XD}
+-05-21 18:52:47  Risque: We didn't get an answer on the rank 10 items
+-05-21 18:52:49  bcfcespley: yeah 360 clicks for 3 items -_-
+-05-21 18:52:51  Scott: well
+-05-21 18:52:53  Scott: right now
+-05-21 18:52:58  Scott: bcfc i hae a question
+-05-21 18:53:05  Scott: why does one gang have a wf trophie
+-05-21 18:53:08  Scott: and no others do :O
+-05-21 18:53:15  Food: Yeah, WHY bcfc.
+-05-21 18:53:17  Zorg: yeah i dont get that accessory item
+-05-21 18:53:18  Tibos: DF &gt; others? {xd}
+-05-21 18:53:19  Food: Hater
+-05-21 18:53:23  bcfcespley: no
+-05-21 18:53:28  Scott: I want to remove it :P
+-05-21 18:53:34  bcfcespley: its because i felt like DF deserved it...
+-05-21 18:53:40  Tibos: &lt;3
+-05-21 18:53:40  Zorg: If you touch anything in graphics Scott I'll slap you :P
+-05-21 18:53:40  bcfcespley: and to prove im not biased :P
+-05-21 18:53:40  Scott: eh
+-05-21 18:53:51  Scott: didnt say anything about your design, old man
+-05-21 18:54:03  bcfcespley: if TC win WL like 3 or 4 times, ill add it for them
+-05-21 18:54:04  Zorg: I gave graphics control to Lucas and was like... there now if you ever touch any of it I'll kill you :D
+-05-21 18:54:04  KevinMp: :O burn! xD
+-05-21 18:54:13  Scott: XD
+-05-21 18:54:21  Scott: I use it for uploading staff designs tbh
+-05-21 18:54:21 bcfcespley: *goes and deleted EVERYTHING*
+-05-21 18:54:24  Food: Rank 10 items?
+-05-21 18:54:35  Scott: im sure zorg would go bitchtastic on your ass and account
+-05-21 18:54:39  Zorg: anyway enough rambling
+-05-21 18:54:44  Zorg: OC questions
+-05-21 18:54:47  bcfcespley: Rank 10's..
+-05-21 18:54:53  Scott: bcfc can answer this
+-05-21 18:55:03  bcfcespley: who got back to me? {XD}
+-05-21 18:55:03  Scott: mr. graphics admin.
+-05-21 18:55:05  bcfcespley: i know DF did...
+-05-21 18:55:19  Scott: bcfc
+-05-21 18:55:23  Scott: relaunch in main
+-05-21 18:55:26  Angel: you could make more character designs for specific gang roles
+-05-21 18:55:27  Scott: best option :)
+-05-21 18:55:38  bcfcespley: i prefer making items atm to be honest =&#93;
+-05-21 18:55:40  Food: We've been waiting for rank 10 and 18 items for a long time, just curious on how these are coming?
+-05-21 18:55:46  Angel: War Advisor could have a specific rank 14 look only available to them
+-05-21 18:55:48  Scott: well
+-05-21 18:55:50  bcfcespley: oh yeah rank 18's too
+-05-21 18:55:54  KevinMp: :O zorg i have a quick question to ask before we go. it can wait though
+-05-21 18:56:04  Scott: shoot it now kevin before i wrap up
+-05-21 18:56:10  Scott: ...sounds oddly wrong
+-05-21 18:56:14  Tibos: i don't see how rank 10 items can be a good idea....
+-05-21 18:56:19  KevinMp: back to the boss npcs. who gets the drop if multiple people attack it?
+-05-21 18:56:30  Tibos: it would only support mass favoring so the gang can benefit from them
+-05-21 18:56:30  Zorg: no idea
+-05-21 18:56:36  Angel: so that people of leadership look like leadership if they choose to be
+-05-21 18:56:36  Food: I have another thing to add if I may.
+-05-21 18:56:40  Risque: Stop beating around the bush on the rank 10/18 items. We still dont' have an answer O.o
+-05-21 18:56:41  KevinMp: still in development then? :O
+-05-21 18:56:42  Zorg: that's all just concept ideas, it is in no way designed yet
+-05-21 18:56:48  KevinMp: ok gotcha ty
+-05-21 18:56:51  Scott: im guessing we have a wow vote system :P
+-05-21 18:56:53  Scott: right
+-05-21 18:57:01  bcfcespley: the answer is, i cant add one gangs, so until all 4 get back to me, no one gets anything :/
+-05-21 18:57:05  Scott: I'll wrap this up :D
+-05-21 18:57:40  Scott: Thank you for attending another successfull LegCon, I'd liek to thank gangs for being able to get the reps in a short amount of time and for staff help with this session.
+-05-21 18:57:50  Zorg: Ok I'll get some changes done tomorrow, to Elders and such
+-05-21 18:57:55  Scott: I'll post the review tomorrow but i'll get to work on elders tonight
+-05-21 18:57:59  Pie: it's tomorrow in 2 minutes.
+-05-21 18:58:07  HappyDays: I am going to make some threads in elders
+-05-21 18:58:07  Scott: XD anyway
+-05-21 18:58:09  Pie: be quick, Scott
+-05-21 18:58:10  HappyDays: strolls off
+-05-21 18:58:12  HappyDays: :p
+-05-21 18:58:13  KevinMp: ok im out then. have a good one
+-05-21 18:58:20  Scott: Zorg will remove your green status soon
+-05-21 18:58:22  KevinMp: gl with all the new updates zorgy :O
+-05-21 18:58:25  Zorg: Special thanks to Lucas for attending -_-
+-05-21 18:58:27  Scott: Thank you again!
+-05-21 18:58:30  Food: I still have one point, Gang chat continues to be an Issue.
+-05-21 18:58:31  bcfcespley: {XD}
+-05-21 18:58:33  Pie: Thanks Lucas
+-05-21 18:58:34  HappyDays: sips beer
+-05-21 18:58:35  Scott: LegCon OVER!
+<span class="boxtitle">Finish: 2010-05-21 18:58:35</span><br>
 |}
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 [[Category: LegCon]]

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Revision as of 06:37, 22 May 2010