Difference between revisions of "LegCon/ Log 2"

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LegCon #2
Hosted by: Scott, Zorg
Date: 21st May 2010
With: Scott, Zorg, Pie, bouchie and Lucas.
OC Reps: Food, Risque, SlickVic and Bcfcespley.
BoD Reps: Darp, Korin, Angel and KevinMP.
TC Reps: Bernard721, Pascal, 007Ben, and Spanky.
DF Reps: Tibos, Jonkers, Rotten and Zerocomman.
Elder Reps: Ross, Tibos, Food and Darp.

Start:2010-05-21 17:00:15
2010-05-21 17:00:15 Zorg: Ok chat is going moderated
2010-05-21 17:00:17 Scott: :P
2010-05-21 17:00:17 turdus: long left to hommie bullspit
2010-05-21 17:00:19 Seraphim: noooo
2010-05-21 17:00:22 Seraphim: not moderation
2010-05-21 17:00:22 Altiar: noooo
2010-05-21 17:00:25 Bernard721: Muteeeeedd. :D
2010-05-21 17:00:26 Scott: Right
2010-05-21 17:00:30 Zorg: Ok who isn't a rep who needs to be?
2010-05-21 17:00:35 Food: Slickvic.
2010-05-21 17:00:36 bcfcespley: me
2010-05-21 17:00:37 Bernard721: 007Ben for TC.
2010-05-21 17:00:39 Pascal: oo7ben
2010-05-21 17:00:43 KevinMp: bcf u r
2010-05-21 17:00:45 KevinMp: ur green
2010-05-21 17:00:46 bcfcespley: oh lol
2010-05-21 17:00:50 bcfcespley: it told me i couldnt speak
2010-05-21 17:00:50 Zorg: 007ben and slickvic, anyone else?
2010-05-21 17:01:07 Korin: hmm
2010-05-21 17:01:25 Zorg: slickvic and 007ben relogin to chat please
2010-05-21 17:01:45 KevinMp: thar ya go ;)
2010-05-21 17:01:57 Zorg: ok everyone got all their reps?
2010-05-21 17:02:02 Pascal: yup
2010-05-21 17:02:03 Rotten: Yes sir
2010-05-21 17:02:05 Scott: hmm
2010-05-21 17:02:07 Ross: ya
2010-05-21 17:02:09 Risque: Yes
2010-05-21 17:02:11 KevinMp: angel is afk :/
2010-05-21 17:02:12 Bernard721: TC, drop me a PM if you have any point, and I'll try and add it to the conversation
2010-05-21 17:02:14 Scott: Right
2010-05-21 17:02:21 Tibos: same here, DF :P
2010-05-21 17:02:25 Scott: Can reps like.. be quiet for a few seconds
2010-05-21 17:02:26 Zorg: Ok set your chat to your gang color, if you're an elder use your gang color, if you're a rogue use white
2010-05-21 17:02:29 KevinMp: we have 2 backups. one is offline, and 1 isnt responding
2010-05-21 17:02:38 Scott: Zorg Rogue rep is Pie :P
2010-05-21 17:02:46 Zorg: ....?
2010-05-21 17:02:48 bcfcespley: im colourblind XD
2010-05-21 17:02:50 Zorg: Pie is a staff rep -_-
2010-05-21 17:02:55 Ross: Lol
2010-05-21 17:03:00 Angel: Leave me alone kevin -_-
2010-05-21 17:03:01 Bernard721: Organizational fail
2010-05-21 17:03:02 Tibos: we fail at rogue reps then
2010-05-21 17:03:03 Scott: He's also.. the rogue rep :D
2010-05-21 17:03:13 Zorg: whatever
2010-05-21 17:03:20 KevinMp: nvm were all good :d
2010-05-21 17:03:27 Scott: Right
2010-05-21 17:03:35 Scott: Reps be quiet for a few mins :P
2010-05-21 17:03:38 Bernard721: shoot dropped some bud in my keyboard
2010-05-21 17:03:42 KevinMp: WHAT!?!?!
2010-05-21 17:03:45 Zorg: Nobody cares.
2010-05-21 17:03:45 KevinMp: lol allright
2010-05-21 17:03:46 Scott: by that i mean shut up
2010-05-21 17:03:50 Ross: Lmao
2010-05-21 17:03:57 bcfcespley: can we just start
2010-05-21 17:04:00 Zorg: Ok will be removing rep status from those who speak...
2010-05-21 17:04:10 Zorg: If that's not clear enough by the instructions given twice already.
2010-05-21 17:04:31 Scott: Right, Welcome to the second LegCon. This second meeting will be hosted by Lucas, myself and Zorg.
2010-05-21 17:04:50 Scott: The room is set to moderated so if you need to make a point PM your chosen gang reps by double clciking their names.
2010-05-21 17:05:04 Scott: Can all gang reps please use your gang colours to avoid confusion
2010-05-21 17:05:26 Scott: All input will be noted down and tomorrow the logs/review of the meeting will be posted.
2010-05-21 17:05:32 Scott: Take it away Zorg :P
2010-05-21 17:05:51 Zorg: Ok this will be a structured chat, not a free-for-all... so if it isn't constructive I dont want to hear it.
2010-05-21 17:06:15 Zorg: How many elder reps do we have here?
2010-05-21 17:06:20 Food: All 4.
2010-05-21 17:06:23 Ross: 4
2010-05-21 17:06:29 Zorg: hmm ok
2010-05-21 17:06:30 KevinMp: BoD is... checking. hold on
2010-05-21 17:06:38 Zorg: Well first the Elders and their forum.
2010-05-21 17:06:41 KevinMp: we have 4. all good :D
2010-05-21 17:07:08 Zorg: The initial idea behind this was a place I could get feedback from people without getting opinions of new players or players of lesser importance.... if that's not too offensive :D
2010-05-21 17:07:15 Zorg: However it didn't get used much.
2010-05-21 17:07:19 Zorg: So I shut it down.
2010-05-21 17:07:32 Zorg: Then Deeg convinced me to re-open it with him running it.
2010-05-21 17:07:41 Zorg: Then Deeg left... he is kind of back now but still.
2010-05-21 17:07:50 Zorg: So it got abandoned for a while, then Scott was put in charge of it.
2010-05-21 17:07:59 Zorg: It now seems to just be there... with no real purpose.
2010-05-21 17:08:30 Zorg: So I want to know what people think about it, whether it should remain or be removed again.
2010-05-21 17:08:43 darp: At one point, the forum was put forth as a way to discuss suggestions and game updates and the like.
2010-05-21 17:08:46 KevinMp: we should keep it up :O
2010-05-21 17:08:57 bcfcespley: We should keep it, if you actually have some input zorg
2010-05-21 17:09:04 darp: If the estions forum is player driven, I think COE would do better with direct input from you, Zorg.
2010-05-21 17:09:12 jonkers: To me it sounds like the hall of gods but for older players
2010-05-21 17:09:18 Scott: Of course if kept open the members will be re-worked so every member has recently logged in so we dont have our current stauts of inactive elders.
2010-05-21 17:09:19 darp: So that we aren't discussing things that you don't like or won't want implemented.
2010-05-21 17:09:21 Ross: First of all, I'd like to thank Scott and the staff, for arranging this semester
2010-05-21 17:09:23 Zorg: It was removed when the council forum was added with the gang system, as that was supposed to take its place.
2010-05-21 17:09:34 Risque: And what about the Senate forum?
2010-05-21 17:09:40 Bernard721: Well just like the Avatar and Senate, its apparently not being used.. but the occasional thread and discussion is worth it
2010-05-21 17:09:42 KevinMp: imo, all new updates should go through it
2010-05-21 17:09:47 Pie: The senate is junk.
2010-05-21 17:09:52 Risque: Then why have it?
2010-05-21 17:09:55 Ross: the main problem is activity.....i said that in the forum itself
2010-05-21 17:09:57 KevinMp: it lets veteran players discuss it, and ensure itll go right and such
2010-05-21 17:10:00 darp: Back to coe.
2010-05-21 17:10:00 Risque: Or combine Senate and COE
2010-05-21 17:10:03 Tibos: from my experience, the CoE is a bit more active (lol!) and mature about problems than the Senate
2010-05-21 17:10:06 Zorg: Yes the senate, hall of gods, elder forums are all similair sort of forums and none of them serve a purpose at present.
2010-05-21 17:10:12 Ross: we have way too make players on the elders list who have long lost interest
2010-05-21 17:10:17 Ross: thats the problem, imo
2010-05-21 17:10:19 bcfcespley: elders is as useful as suggestions at this point in time, without the person who can actually make things happening having no input, whats the point in doing anything in them? {XD}
2010-05-21 17:10:42 Angel: Maybe the COE could be used as a filter forum for the public forums, since you ay you want to remove the 'leser importance' Elders could ensure that the critical point are addressed and heard, rather than suggestions being shut down because they are either
2010-05-21 17:10:53 Angel: improperly seen or jut spammed away
2010-05-21 17:11:06 Scott: Well at the current status of the game
2010-05-21 17:11:08 Zorg: so what place would the senate and avatar forums have?
2010-05-21 17:11:18 Scott: things cant really be added ebcause of the rebuild
2010-05-21 17:11:19 Food: It's simple, It requires Zorg's involvement to work..if not, it seems things are being said to deaf ears, also..we could use some active people, as mention.
2010-05-21 17:11:20 Ross: no, we just need to axe the players who barely log in more and get some of the more active players in
2010-05-21 17:11:24 Pie: I don't see why we have the senate
2010-05-21 17:11:29 darp: Senate should remain, as needed. Avatar forum... meh.
2010-05-21 17:11:34 Risque: Ross makes a good point
2010-05-21 17:11:36 Ross: Primie, Jack, Doddsyboi, Pink
2010-05-21 17:11:38 Ross: etc etc
2010-05-21 17:11:43 Bernard721: Maybe if a suggestion in the Suggestion forum sounds decent, it could be moved into another forum for old player discussion
2010-05-21 17:11:50 Tibos: Avatar forum = reward for avatars ; Senate = discussions that involve gangs
2010-05-21 17:12:08 bcfcespley: a reward?
2010-05-21 17:12:09 SlickVic: I don't see a lot of use for the Avatar forum
2010-05-21 17:12:10 bcfcespley: o.O
2010-05-21 17:12:14 Scott: So you guys would prefer a filter process ?
2010-05-21 17:12:21 Ross: urgh
2010-05-21 17:12:22 Ross: no
2010-05-21 17:12:24 Ross: in short
2010-05-21 17:12:26 Zorg: Like I said the Elder process became tiresome.... keeping track of a community and selecting those who are active to be Elders... removing inactive Elders. The idea of the Senate was the councils are player elected, it took away the need for staff...
2010-05-21 17:12:31 KevinMp: same. avatar forum is like.. for gloating
2010-05-21 17:12:31 Zorg: to add / remove Elders all the time.
2010-05-21 17:12:34 Angel: Senate forums are gang related, they should be used for global gang discussions... (if any), The the Avatar forum is for avatars, elling av equipment/ welcoming new avatars, it already has it's purpose, not many pay attention to it, so that's why it seems
2010-05-21 17:12:38 Angel: to be worthless
2010-05-21 17:12:52 Ross: Zorg, its not that difficult to maintain elders at the moment
2010-05-21 17:12:56 Ross: the list hasnt be revised in ages
2010-05-21 17:12:58 Zorg: Yes, sadly the gangs rarely have the need to talk with all the other gangs.
2010-05-21 17:13:07 Ross: been*
2010-05-21 17:13:09 zerocomman: avatar forum is a place where people female-dog about tyran drops. it's worthless
2010-05-21 17:13:14 KevinMp: we just need new ones. activeness is a requirement
2010-05-21 17:13:22 Bernard721: I just dont see why this is the starting topic point... what is is, taking up 5mb on the server space? Leave it be, and modify it later
2010-05-21 17:13:28 Scott: hmm
2010-05-21 17:13:46 Zorg: So if we keep it and I get involved, how do we decide who gets to be an Elder and who does not?
2010-05-21 17:13:50 darp: I think Zorg steering of COE or at least Zorg through Scott would be the most important starting point.
2010-05-21 17:13:55 bcfcespley: everyone zorg
2010-05-21 17:13:58 Ross: election from within?
2010-05-21 17:14:00 Scott: So would you guys like to see the senate removed, avatar forum removed CoE reset and all player revised with a bigger member list?
2010-05-21 17:14:07 darp: More work for Z and Staff, but it would spur some discussion.
2010-05-21 17:14:09 Bernard721: How about using the voting system thats never used....
2010-05-21 17:14:16 Tibos: election from within is the logical idea
2010-05-21 17:14:18 Food: I say we leave Scott in chargew of members list, but if you keep a eye on what's said there Zorg, that would work.
2010-05-21 17:14:19 Angel: so that isn't the issue here, the COE should use the filter method because it shows that the people who are selected are done so for a reason, they have more thought behind there points than new players as you said, and can develop less brain punching idea
2010-05-21 17:14:22 Pascal: let people apply and scan their history within the game?
2010-05-21 17:14:23 Angel: s so to speak :)
2010-05-21 17:14:23 Ross: if you use internal election, it gives the group another purpose?
2010-05-21 17:14:27 Zorg: The voting system is being removed soon. :/
2010-05-21 17:14:45 bcfcespley: what and biased options is coming in instead?
2010-05-21 17:14:55 Scott: Zorg, would it be a stupid idea to have like a gang voting system ?
2010-05-21 17:15:00 KevinMp: people who are invited to CoE should be players with little staff issues, a long period of play, and activeness
2010-05-21 17:15:06 Pie: why should the elders get to elect someone the staff don't care to listen to?
2010-05-21 17:15:11 Rotten: dont we have a gang voting system?
2010-05-21 17:15:16 Scott: like the kick player vote a player needs a certain number of yess's to get access ?
2010-05-21 17:15:21 jonkers: Would different gangs agree on a vote?
2010-05-21 17:15:27 Zorg: I'm not adding voting systems on anything, this isn't a democracy... we can discuss things giving reasons not mindless pick from multiple choice questions.
2010-05-21 17:15:27 Food: Voting is based too muchj on popularity, I strongly believe that a member of Staff should be incharge of the members.
2010-05-21 17:15:38 KevinMp: should we have a certain amount of people from each gang in the Chambers?
2010-05-21 17:15:42 KevinMp: 4 per?
2010-05-21 17:15:46 Ross: it wouldnt be mindless pick from the elders...
2010-05-21 17:15:54 darp: PiCOE should be removed from gang considerations as much as possible.
2010-05-21 17:15:56 Pie: Kevin.. That would be the senate again..
2010-05-21 17:16:01 Tibos: CoE is strongly gang independent
2010-05-21 17:16:16 KevinMp: i mean.. just choosing the people that go in.
2010-05-21 17:16:20 darp: I've seen very little gangbias in the COE.
2010-05-21 17:16:23 KevinMp: So that way, every gang has a voice
2010-05-21 17:16:38 Pie: Again, that sounds very similat to the senate..
2010-05-21 17:16:39 Angel: Elders are decided from ranging factors, first would be account age, then game contributions, gang contribution, staff contribtions such a good ethics between players and staff, they should be selected by staff (Zorg and scott) with input from the current
2010-05-21 17:16:39 Zorg: Yes, Elders would be for discussing game changes... not changes that could effect some gangs differently to others.
2010-05-21 17:16:44 Pie: similar*
2010-05-21 17:16:50 bcfcespley: but what is every coe member decides to join the same gang
2010-05-21 17:16:52 Tibos: no, gang has nothing to do with CoE, people there are mature enough to think of the game and not of the gang they are in
2010-05-21 17:16:56 Angel: elders but the decision remains staff for a non-biased outlook
2010-05-21 17:17:07 Zorg: Clearly the current Elders list is out-dated.... Scott has been in charge of it for months, so clearly that's not working.
2010-05-21 17:17:16 bcfcespley: lol yeah scott
2010-05-21 17:17:18 bcfcespley: do your job :p
2010-05-21 17:17:23 Pie: seconded.
2010-05-21 17:17:24 Pie: xD
2010-05-21 17:17:25 KevinMp: So how are we gonna go about deciding new members?
2010-05-21 17:17:26 Ross: Lol
2010-05-21 17:17:31 Risque: Per Bigmick - Keep the active members already in there and add or remove the rest.
2010-05-21 17:17:33 KevinMp: staff pick?
2010-05-21 17:17:33 Scott: -_-
2010-05-21 17:17:37 Food: Was scott under the direction to fire inactive people?
2010-05-21 17:17:41 Scott: well if i went ahead and removed inactives
2010-05-21 17:17:52 Scott: it would be helpful if current elders did their joba nd suggested replacements
2010-05-21 17:18:01 Bernard721: What about a seperate staff position for the head of CoE
2010-05-21 17:18:01 Ross: ...
2010-05-21 17:18:05 Pie: why does there have to be replacements?
2010-05-21 17:18:19 Ross: theres a sticky on membership thats got about 59 votes
2010-05-21 17:18:21 darp: We could do better suggesting new members, and there is no need to remove inactives.
2010-05-21 17:18:22 Ross: posts*
2010-05-21 17:18:22 Zorg: That would be a very boring job.
2010-05-21 17:18:32 Pie: surely a small, active group is better than a larger, inactive one
2010-05-21 17:18:33 Scott: Some old posts, witht he players inactive
2010-05-21 17:18:39 KevinMp: Pie yes
2010-05-21 17:18:46 bcfcespley: exactly pie
2010-05-21 17:18:48 Scott: Right
2010-05-21 17:18:53 Ross: there has to be replacements because theres people on the list who have zero input on this game anymore
2010-05-21 17:18:57 darp: I don't see the difference.
2010-05-21 17:18:59 Angel: COE has been seen as eligible to be removed, making a staff position is not functional just further proves the point it has no place.
2010-05-21 17:19:01 Ross: they barely find the interest to log in regulary
2010-05-21 17:19:06 Pie: but why do they have to be replaced?
2010-05-21 17:19:09 Pie: why not just remove them?
2010-05-21 17:19:18 Ross: because then you'll have about 8 elders
2010-05-21 17:19:27 Ross: i'd be cool with that
2010-05-21 17:19:32 Pie: and select Elders when somebody proves good enough.. :D
2010-05-21 17:19:32 Ross: but its not my decision
2010-05-21 17:19:34 Ross: so...
2010-05-21 17:19:38 Scott: Right
2010-05-21 17:19:38 Ross: yes
2010-05-21 17:19:40 Pie: that's what we're here to discuss..
2010-05-21 17:19:40 Ross: that could work
2010-05-21 17:19:48 zerocomman: how many members does staff want in elders
2010-05-21 17:19:49 Scott: so should elder list be reset yes or no -_-
2010-05-21 17:19:55 KevinMp: yes
2010-05-21 17:20:00 Risque: You need to decide how many elders, as well
2010-05-21 17:20:01 Pie: reset? no
2010-05-21 17:20:03 KevinMp: it needs to be refreshed
2010-05-21 17:20:04 Bernard721: Well obviously Elders now are going to say no
2010-05-21 17:20:06 Pie: pruned, yes
2010-05-21 17:20:07 Tibos: trimmed and afterwards expanded
2010-05-21 17:20:09 Ross: reset?
2010-05-21 17:20:10 Angel: Maybe Selecting Elders could be the same as staff positions, it could be explained and applications sent to scott, which then gets discussed in the forum by the Elders currently, and a decision is reached?
2010-05-21 17:20:11 KevinMp: some of them can stay
2010-05-21 17:20:12 Ross: cut down
2010-05-21 17:20:12 Zorg: There was never a limit.
2010-05-21 17:20:13 Ross: :P
2010-05-21 17:20:27 Zorg: There were like 20 elders before it shutdown and the gang system went live, they became the starting gang councils.
2010-05-21 17:20:28 Tibos: Angel's idea souns nice
2010-05-21 17:20:31 Pascal: their should be a clear idea te be "good" enough though
2010-05-21 17:20:40 Risque: Bigmick - The original amount of elders was 16. Why change that.?
2010-05-21 17:20:41 Ross: that idea sucks
2010-05-21 17:20:49 Ross: cue levels 5 saying "KAN I B ELDAR"
2010-05-21 17:20:59 Scott: like your application
2010-05-21 17:21:01 Zorg: So you want it to remain an invite only elitist forum?
2010-05-21 17:21:02 Scott: hehe :P
2010-05-21 17:21:08 Ross: pretty much
2010-05-21 17:21:10 KevinMp: we should maybe put a year limit on who we accept?
2010-05-21 17:21:10 bcfcespley: yeah
2010-05-21 17:21:12 Tibos: yes
2010-05-21 17:21:15 jonkers: yes
2010-05-21 17:21:16 Pie: if it's not invite only, you may as well close it..
2010-05-21 17:21:16 Ross: that was the draw of the CoE to being wiht
2010-05-21 17:21:17 Food: Yes.
2010-05-21 17:21:17 Pascal: yeah
2010-05-21 17:21:18 Zorg: Ok
2010-05-21 17:21:21 Angel: obviously scott knows the difference between an aplicable elder and a level 5
2010-05-21 17:21:21 KevinMp: for example, u need to have been playing for at least 2 years or something
2010-05-21 17:21:28 Zorg: Do you want to allow applications or literally be like... wait until you get invited?
2010-05-21 17:21:36 Ross: the latter
2010-05-21 17:21:38 Pie: wait until you get contacted, i think
2010-05-21 17:21:40 Zorg: Obviously we would ignore low level newbie applications.
2010-05-21 17:21:41 KevinMp: yeah
2010-05-21 17:21:43 jonkers: latter
2010-05-21 17:21:43 Angel: You don't need to be a genius, Scott could easily filter out the 'lesser importance' :P
2010-05-21 17:21:47 Pie: with discussion inside the froum
2010-05-21 17:21:48 Pie: forum*
2010-05-21 17:22:09 Pascal: applications sound nice, maybe make a system that checks if you are eligeble for it?
2010-05-21 17:22:10 SlickVic: how were elders chosen initially?
2010-05-21 17:22:15 zerocomman: i agree with waiting for invites
2010-05-21 17:22:16 darp: Invite is fine, but I think membership is the lesser issue... what about the forum's function?
2010-05-21 17:22:17 Zorg: Ok that's decided, the Elder forum will be re-launched, the member list updated and we'll form a new group of Elders through which all updates will be explained and discussed.
2010-05-21 17:22:21 Ross: Zorg hand picked them
2010-05-21 17:22:23 Tibos: handpicked by zorg, SlickVic
2010-05-21 17:22:24 darp: ok, fine.
2010-05-21 17:22:24 Ross: i think...?
2010-05-21 17:22:29 007Ben: an application would be good if it had a required rank to enter
2010-05-21 17:22:41 KevinMp: we cant base it on gang rank, can we?
2010-05-21 17:22:44 Zorg: They were hand picked by me, back when I was more community involved.
2010-05-21 17:22:45 zerocomman: haha no
2010-05-21 17:22:47 KevinMp: non-biased
2010-05-21 17:22:50 darp: COE removed from gang.
2010-05-21 17:22:55 Zorg: Ok the gang senate, should that just be removed?
2010-05-21 17:22:55 Food: Zorg picked them out of Gang's leadership when he relauched I think :O
2010-05-21 17:23:00 Food: Yes Zorg.
2010-05-21 17:23:02 Scott: Yes.
2010-05-21 17:23:03 Pie: yes
2010-05-21 17:23:08 Angel: agreed
2010-05-21 17:23:09 darp: Keep Senate.
2010-05-21 17:23:09 Zorg: and the avatar forum?
2010-05-21 17:23:10 Scott: At the moment i just see spam all the time
2010-05-21 17:23:11 Tibos: No... it does no harm
2010-05-21 17:23:14 darp: What's the harm?
2010-05-21 17:23:15 Ross: remove it
2010-05-21 17:23:16 zerocomman: kill avatar forum
2010-05-21 17:23:18 Scott: well darp
2010-05-21 17:23:18 Ross: useless forum
2010-05-21 17:23:22 Zorg: It's never had a constructive post in it though. :/
2010-05-21 17:23:23 Scott: im not being evil but
2010-05-21 17:23:23 007Ben: not base it on the rank, just need to be a certain rank to apply for it, so no noobs would apply
2010-05-21 17:23:24 darp: Oh, god. Tibos and I of one mind.
2010-05-21 17:23:30 Bernard721: Why is there a need to scrap them?
2010-05-21 17:23:32 Pie: Uh
2010-05-21 17:23:33 Scott: the main threads are just good luck int he next wf
2010-05-21 17:23:34 Food: There's no point in having 2 threads meant for the same thing./
2010-05-21 17:23:36 Bernard721: If theres one tthread a year, so be it
2010-05-21 17:23:37 Ross: we're at a stage now where we have more avatars than lower levels....whats the point?
2010-05-21 17:23:38 Pie: The senate currently has no active topics
2010-05-21 17:23:41 Pie: it's a waste
2010-05-21 17:23:43 Scott: so in total we have a forum that gets a good luck thread every 3 months
2010-05-21 17:23:43 Pascal: remove senate and keep avatar
2010-05-21 17:24:02 Pascal: avatar is getting used still, well not much but more than senate :P
2010-05-21 17:24:09 Scott: I'd say remove senate
2010-05-21 17:24:11 Ross: the avatar one is more useles
2010-05-21 17:24:15 Zorg: Ok I've been trying to make my presence in the suggestions forum a bit more known by actually posting my thoughts recently, I'll get more involved in the Elder forum and shutdown the Senate / Avatar forums.
2010-05-21 17:24:15 jonkers: A DF member has suggested that every 3 months elders have to re apply to be an elder.
2010-05-21 17:24:16 bcfcespley: remove suggestions
2010-05-21 17:24:23 darp: At least on paper, there's no use for having a forum for gang leaderships to meet? Yes, it is not being used, but removing is the better idea? :/
2010-05-21 17:24:26 Tibos: avatar forum is posted in daily, but mainly spam
2010-05-21 17:24:30 Scott: that way the current rank 16's have a better job at gang relations
2010-05-21 17:24:34 Zorg: Suggestions serves a purpose :/
2010-05-21 17:24:42 bcfcespley: what purpose lol?
2010-05-21 17:24:46 bcfcespley: dust collecting
2010-05-21 17:24:54 darp: Leave Suggestions alone.
2010-05-21 17:24:55 KevinMp: some of the ideas were taken
2010-05-21 17:24:56 zerocomman: no need for an avatar spam forum
2010-05-21 17:25:07 Angel: remove senate, why? because it is evident when being linked to communicate with other gangs, we don't want anything to do with it, if we wanted to dicusss any isues, that's what the rank 16's are for...
2010-05-21 17:25:14 Food: Suggestions is the same as CoE, It requires Zorg to really work..since he says yes or no to things.
2010-05-21 17:25:17 Rotten: Avatar Forum is one of our most useless forums, we all use it to complain about not getting tyran drops.
2010-05-21 17:25:22 darp: I really don't want Senate removed.
2010-05-21 17:25:23 Bernard721: Rank 16s are hardly used though...
2010-05-21 17:25:42 bcfcespley: why dont zorg add his rating system in his updates to the suggestions forum threads?
2010-05-21 17:25:42 Bernard721: People go straight to the people they're friendly with in a PM
2010-05-21 17:25:44 Pie: darp.. all of its threads are archived
2010-05-21 17:25:45 Scott: Well with senate beign removed rank 16's will have more to do
2010-05-21 17:25:49 Pie: nothing constructive gets posted there
2010-05-21 17:25:52 Risque: Senate hasn't had a post since April 5th so what's the point?
2010-05-21 17:25:52 Zorg: why though darp?
2010-05-21 17:26:06 Zorg: your personal dislike of change is not reason to keep something that has no purpose
2010-05-21 17:26:08 darp: Whether used or not, the avenue of communication is open.
2010-05-21 17:26:11 Ross: none of the gangs like each other....whats the point in trying to maintaina forum where they can co-exist?
2010-05-21 17:26:12 Ross: {XD}
2010-05-21 17:26:14 Scott: If i moved good suggestions to senate it will just turn into arguements
2010-05-21 17:26:14 Zorg: The whole point of the senate was to replace the elder forum and it never did
2010-05-21 17:26:24 Pie: The rank 16's job is to communicate..
2010-05-21 17:26:29 Zorg: an avenue that is never used in the years it has been open
2010-05-21 17:26:30 Pie: Use them
2010-05-21 17:26:44 Angel: the avenue of communication is within the rank 16', they are suppose to 'communicate'. Not everyone in leadership.
2010-05-21 17:26:56 jonkers: An idea from a DF member. In the senate forum a gang should be able to open a thread that only a selected gang could read. So If for example OC only want to talk to BOD that can.
2010-05-21 17:27:00 Bernard721: I have a feeling this LegCon is going to be a long one... I mean 30 minutes on forum use....
2010-05-21 17:27:02 darp: Sometimes I want to yell at 15 people directly, not through the r16s.
2010-05-21 17:27:08 Angel: The rank 16 is suppose to bring any discussion to the attention of council in the council forum, not the senate
2010-05-21 17:27:08 Pie: jonkers
2010-05-21 17:27:17 Zorg: Gang to gang forums aren't happening.
2010-05-21 17:27:17 Scott: jonkers that would be... stupid
2010-05-21 17:27:18 Angel: thus creating senate forum useless :P
2010-05-21 17:27:20 Pie: in response to that, again, that is why there are Rank 16
2010-05-21 17:27:28 Zorg: Ratings could be added to Suggestions but that would be a big job.
2010-05-21 17:27:29 Pie: And the post office..
2010-05-21 17:27:36 Scott: plus
2010-05-21 17:27:38 bcfcespley: just copy and paste the code lol {XD}
2010-05-21 17:27:45 Scott: the problem with ratings is its jsut thumbs up or down
2010-05-21 17:27:50 jonkers: Its not my idea I am just passing on idea's
2010-05-21 17:27:52 Scott: we need to know WHY its good or bad
2010-05-21 17:27:56 Pie: i know
2010-05-21 17:27:56 Zorg: Like you copy and paste your graphics? :o
2010-05-21 17:27:58 Zorg: Zing!
2010-05-21 17:28:00 Pie: I was just responding to it
2010-05-21 17:28:03 bcfcespley: yeah
2010-05-21 17:28:08 bcfcespley: cus that made sense {XD}
2010-05-21 17:28:12 Scott: its no use just saying thumbs down to a good suggestion
2010-05-21 17:28:16 Zorg: :D
2010-05-21 17:28:19 Scott: we need to know why you think its crap
2010-05-21 17:28:19 bcfcespley: :P
2010-05-21 17:28:20 Zorg: Ok next topic
2010-05-21 17:28:33 Ross: Ste got bullied then
2010-05-21 17:28:44 bcfcespley: how did i lol
2010-05-21 17:28:47 Zorg: Flame Forum, right now we're deleting stuff that may get us in to... legal trouble, soon the TOS will be re-written to prohibit such discussion. Apart from that the plan is to leave it.
2010-05-21 17:28:54 Zorg: Do you guys like it? hate it? etc
2010-05-21 17:28:55 Ross: wooo
2010-05-21 17:28:58 Ross: Go flame forum
2010-05-21 17:28:59 Bernard721: Love it.
2010-05-21 17:29:02 Tibos: i like it
2010-05-21 17:29:05 Bernard721: I know its childish.. but its great
2010-05-21 17:29:13 Tibos: but i would like an anti-spam rule on it
2010-05-21 17:29:14 KevinMp: its all trash, but its pretty much a spam forum
2010-05-21 17:29:17 darp: It's pretty inane, but meh... the purpose is sound.
2010-05-21 17:29:19 Pie: it doesn't seem o have moved any of the arguments off of Side Chat -.-
2010-05-21 17:29:23 007Ben: personally i like it, but most if the forums are just pointless :P
2010-05-21 17:29:24 Pie: if anything, i've had more tickets
2010-05-21 17:29:26 zerocomman: anti-spam would be much appreciated
2010-05-21 17:29:27 Food: It's not for me, I have little to no interest in it, but of course..for others it serves a purpose.
2010-05-21 17:29:28 Risque: Nothing will do that, Pie
2010-05-21 17:29:29 darp: It seems to be the new non-related forum, though, often.
2010-05-21 17:29:30 KevinMp: but imo, if it gets the game in trouble, kill it
2010-05-21 17:29:32 Zorg: In short the TOS re-write will prohibit pornographic content, illegal content and personal attacks aimed at individuals within the game.
2010-05-21 17:29:36 Rotten: I hate the Flame Forum
2010-05-21 17:29:43 Scott: Right now i get a mail a week asking me to take action on player abuse ..
2010-05-21 17:29:50 Pascal: yeah flame forum should get kept out of sidechat >.>
2010-05-21 17:29:54 Scott: i cant because if someone insults you its a FLAME forum
2010-05-21 17:29:55 Scott: ignore it
2010-05-21 17:29:59 SlickVic: I have no use for it, but I don't have to vist there so its not an issue to me.
2010-05-21 17:30:06 Food: Once ToS is Re-written then I think Flame Forum will be fine.
2010-05-21 17:30:06 Risque: Exactly, Slick
2010-05-21 17:30:10 007Ben: id rather not click on a link that is said to be a video and be shown genetalia
2010-05-21 17:30:13 Zorg: Well personal attacks in the flame forum will be banned by the TOS soon.
2010-05-21 17:30:25 KevinMp: then in that case, flame forums are good 2 go
2010-05-21 17:30:27 zerocomman: half the stuff in flame would just normally be in non-related
2010-05-21 17:30:28 Scott: 0007, that si one of the things that will be banned by Tos
2010-05-21 17:30:29 darp: How is it a Flame forum then?
2010-05-21 17:30:29 Ross: makes sense
2010-05-21 17:30:29 Tibos: doesn't that ... contradict the purpose?
2010-05-21 17:30:32 Bernard721: Well genetalia is considered pornography... so new ToS will limit that
2010-05-21 17:30:38 Ross: -_-
2010-05-21 17:30:43 Angel: It's good, in myopinion because it reveals what some people will do, and helps to decide upon giving them such respect as staff positions, Elder positions etc, if they say something out of line it shows how they can't make points across without being a
2010-05-21 17:30:47 Ross: you guys have tge wrong end of a stick as to what a flame forum is...
2010-05-21 17:30:50 bcfcespley: angel stop with the essays XD
2010-05-21 17:30:53 Angel: complete ass...
2010-05-21 17:31:00 Scott: for the past few weeks i have edited out a few things that violate a few things
2010-05-21 17:31:04 Zorg: ...*shrug* but there is untested liability through internet bullying if you allow your website to be used for personal attacks against others.
2010-05-21 17:31:04 Rotten: Remove the flame forum
2010-05-21 17:31:10 darp: Then pay attention to the summary, there, bcf.
2010-05-21 17:31:14 darp: lol
2010-05-21 17:31:29 darp: Legal considerations trump all.
2010-05-21 17:31:31 Ross: its fine zorg,
2010-05-21 17:31:35 Zorg: And I'd rather not be in the court case that tests the water on that one, I'll leave that to facebook and encyclopedia dramatica... they have more money... and lawyers
2010-05-21 17:31:46 Ross: the flame forum i suggested to you was merely a forum where restrictions on swearing werent in place
2010-05-21 17:31:50 Ross: mainly got every day rants
2010-05-21 17:31:50 darp: personal attacks = racism, and all the isms, but everything else is fine?
2010-05-21 17:31:52 Ross: or touchy subjects
2010-05-21 17:32:00 Scott: Racsim is edited out right now
2010-05-21 17:32:04 Ross: people who started abusing others took it way out of the context it was meant
2010-05-21 17:32:11 Scott: look at searphims thread right now, shes bitching about my edits
2010-05-21 17:32:13 zerocomman: so rename the flame forum so it no longer implies flaming is approved
2010-05-21 17:32:15 Bernard721: Yep. Racist is edited... ::roll::
2010-05-21 17:32:17 KevinMp: look... the flame forum is gonna get you in hot water :/
2010-05-21 17:32:25 Zorg: It will be an open forum with no restriction on content (besides legal restrictions), no language rules... for ranting and complaining. lol
2010-05-21 17:32:27 Korin: rename it to swearing forum
2010-05-21 17:32:32 KevinMp: if it causes problems, redo it
2010-05-21 17:32:32 Ross: woo
2010-05-21 17:32:33 Tibos: Open Forum?
2010-05-21 17:32:35 Angel: Right now staff 'watch over' the flame forum, so it is just a way of seeing who is here just to fool around and who is here as a more serious manner, than just 'flaming' :)
2010-05-21 17:32:44 Bernard721: So why is using a racial slur different than using unrestricted langugage use
2010-05-21 17:32:47 Zorg: Right now staff watch over it to delete anything illegal lol
2010-05-21 17:32:51 Korin: its not a flame forum without personal attacks
2010-05-21 17:32:55 darp: So, I can tear someone a new one in Flame Forum still, as long as I'm not being racist or other ists?
2010-05-21 17:32:59 Angel: Exactly Zorg
2010-05-21 17:33:00 Korin: rant forum/unrestricted forum/swear forum
2010-05-21 17:33:02 Scott: because a racial slur is bullying against someones race
2010-05-21 17:33:03 Zorg: Open i.e you can discuss anything... suggestions, legacy stuff, not related stuff.... whatever
2010-05-21 17:33:06 Angel: there is it's purpose right there
2010-05-21 17:33:20 Scott: in the UK legislation it is illegal to use race against someone :/
2010-05-21 17:33:28 Zorg: No you will not be able to use the flame forum for personal attacks against players of the game.
2010-05-21 17:33:28 007Ben: if people dont want to read racial slurs, they shouldnt be in the flame forum
2010-05-21 17:33:29 Angel: to weed out who wants to act up and who is more civil
2010-05-21 17:33:34 Ross: or everyday subjects that could cause tension or hit a few nerves :P
2010-05-21 17:33:40 Pie: a while ago, i had trouble explaining to somebody that the Flame Forum was not created for players to attack other players
2010-05-21 17:33:46 darp: Then definitely rename it away from Flame forum.
2010-05-21 17:33:54 Bernard721: But using a racial slur, not pointed at a specific person is not a personal attack
2010-05-21 17:33:56 Zorg: Rename it to what? :/
2010-05-21 17:33:58 Ross: -_-
2010-05-21 17:34:00 Tibos: Open Forum
2010-05-21 17:34:01 Angel: spam forum?
2010-05-21 17:34:02 Scott: Open Forum sounds better
2010-05-21 17:34:03 darp: Open or such.
2010-05-21 17:34:04 Zorg: Chav Forum -_-
2010-05-21 17:34:05 Bernard721: 18+?
2010-05-21 17:34:10 Ross: darp, you have the wrong end of the stick lol
2010-05-21 17:34:10 Scott: Zorg Forum mwhaha
2010-05-21 17:34:13 Zorg: ok all the Americans wouldnt get that joke
2010-05-21 17:34:16 Angel: All it is essentially is spam
2010-05-21 17:34:23 Bernard721: Oh I got the joke
2010-05-21 17:34:25 Scott: Post count doesnt count
2010-05-21 17:34:30 Scott: so spam shouldnt be an issue
2010-05-21 17:34:33 Tibos: actually it's not spam ;)
2010-05-21 17:34:39 Bernard721: 18+ Forum... done dea
2010-05-21 17:34:40 Scott: Flooding on the otherhand
2010-05-21 17:34:42 Bernard721: deal*
2010-05-21 17:34:45 Ross: flaming in the UK means swearing
2010-05-21 17:34:46 Ross: simple as
2010-05-21 17:34:49 Zorg: Spam just makes my nightly db backups take longer. -_-
2010-05-21 17:34:49 KevinMp: remake the spam forum and remove the idea of flame. solvves the problem, and lets people say what they want
2010-05-21 17:35:02 Scott: *floods Zorgs inbox*
2010-05-21 17:35:04 Ross: thats all the intention of the forum was, a place to have no restictions on language
2010-05-21 17:35:10 Zorg: ok so Spam Forum, I'll put in place the rules mentioned above... swearing and such will still be allowed.
2010-05-21 17:35:11 zerocomman: i doubt people want it to be a spam forum either
2010-05-21 17:35:12 Ross: not to actually start inciting hatred on other players
2010-05-21 17:35:14 darp: Flaming every where else in the world means verbally abusing people.
2010-05-21 17:35:20 Bernard721: Not Spam Forum..
2010-05-21 17:35:21 Bernard721: Its not spam
2010-05-21 17:35:27 Bernard721: Its discussions that are 18+
2010-05-21 17:35:28 Ross: doesnt have to mean people...
2010-05-21 17:35:30 Scott: ...
2010-05-21 17:35:31 007Ben: adult forum
2010-05-21 17:35:34 Risque: Bigmick - I think having a forum like this puts you on dodgey ground, why take the risk?
2010-05-21 17:35:35 Zorg: Mature Forum? o.O
2010-05-21 17:35:38 Zorg: That sounds like porn...
2010-05-21 17:35:41 Pascal: XD
2010-05-21 17:35:42 darp: Mature forum lol
2010-05-21 17:35:47 Rotten: people can just lie and say there 18+
2010-05-21 17:35:50 Ross: Non-Restricted?
2010-05-21 17:35:51 KevinMp: mature forum would lead to porn one way or another
2010-05-21 17:35:52 Tibos: Unrestricted Forum if you don't like Open
2010-05-21 17:35:52 Rotten: that solves nothing
2010-05-21 17:35:53 Scott: are you telling me that a thread about MrImplode being an idiot isnt spam
2010-05-21 17:35:54 Scott: o_o
2010-05-21 17:35:57 Ross: kinda has a play on words from not-related
2010-05-21 17:36:00 Ross: :D
2010-05-21 17:36:02 Bernard721: Well of course, I mean I'm 15... but its the players choice
2010-05-21 17:36:13 Food: The big boys forum with no offical name forum.
2010-05-21 17:36:15 Scott: So technically you shouldnt be in that forum hehe :P
2010-05-21 17:36:16 Food: There we go.
2010-05-21 17:36:25 darp: People can lie about their age. That's fine. The legal considerations remain covered.
2010-05-21 17:36:26 bcfcespley: no because people will read the word unrestricted without reading the tos
2010-05-21 17:36:27 zerocomman: does making it a clan rather than a public forum help any?
2010-05-21 17:36:32 Scott: and i highly doubt you went "mommy can i acces the big bad forum"
2010-05-21 17:36:35 KevinMp: if we had an age limit on a forum, the little kids would complain about not being allowed
2010-05-21 17:36:41 KevinMp: i could see them making multis just to access it
2010-05-21 17:36:48 Bernard721: Its the internet people
2010-05-21 17:36:49 Scott: Multis shouldnt be an issue.
2010-05-21 17:36:55 bcfcespley: Hi are you 18? yes, ok {XD}
2010-05-21 17:36:59 Ross: if people lie about their age and then get offended by what they see
2010-05-21 17:37:00 Pie: the Flame Forum has an accept thing that says only accept if you're 18, Kevin
2010-05-21 17:37:03 Ross: thats their problem
2010-05-21 17:37:13 Bernard721: Ross ::yes::
2010-05-21 17:37:13 Scott: people can make multis to read other gang forums.. do you want us to shutdown gangs to 0 day old people lol?
2010-05-21 17:37:21 Risque: Charge admission to the flame forum :X
2010-05-21 17:37:45 007Ben: i agree with ross, if people get offended after lying about their age, its their oen fault
2010-05-21 17:37:45 Scott: if people make multis they get banned
2010-05-21 17:37:48 Scott: their own fault
2010-05-21 17:37:50 Zorg: ok the forum will remain anyway with some restrictions and a possible rename
2010-05-21 17:37:51 007Ben: own*
2010-05-21 17:38:04 Scott: Spanky
2010-05-21 17:38:09 Scott: are you actually typing
2010-05-21 17:38:13 Scott: or have you fallen asleep
2010-05-21 17:38:18 Spanky: nope
2010-05-21 17:38:20 Risque: rofl
2010-05-21 17:38:20 Ross: anyone who gets offended by a few swear words needs a slap anyway
2010-05-21 17:38:22 Tibos: no, he's been that way since before we started
2010-05-21 17:38:25 Pie: i'm thingking that too, Scott
2010-05-21 17:38:26 Pie: xD
2010-05-21 17:38:30 Pie: thinking*
2010-05-21 17:38:33 Bernard721: {XD} 2010-05-21 17:38:33 Angel: i saw that aswell
2010-05-21 17:38:33 bcfcespley: hes been typing sinse it started {XD}
2010-05-21 17:38:36 Angel: :P
2010-05-21 17:38:40 Spanky: listening
2010-05-21 17:38:49 Pascal: you mean reading
2010-05-21 17:38:51 Zorg: Ok another topic, Legacy Affairs
2010-05-21 17:38:54 KevinMp: dude... just rename it spam forum. filter the swears, but allow edgier content
2010-05-21 17:38:58 Bernard721: OK so just putting it out there... Speak up TC {XD} Private Message me
2010-05-21 17:39:07 Zorg: Do you guys want a clan that checks staff logs and reviews staff decisions or not?
2010-05-21 17:39:13 Tibos: yes!
2010-05-21 17:39:16 jonkers: yes
2010-05-21 17:39:16 Ross: damn right
2010-05-21 17:39:17 Risque: Yes
2010-05-21 17:39:19 Bernard721: ... LA?
2010-05-21 17:39:20 007Ben: that would be nice
2010-05-21 17:39:23 Pascal: what is the purpose right now?
2010-05-21 17:39:26 Pie: .. we already have one
2010-05-21 17:39:28 Bernard721: Legacy Affairs....?
2010-05-21 17:39:28 Pie: and it does just that
2010-05-21 17:39:30 Bernard721: :/
2010-05-21 17:39:32 KevinMp: we need to see legacy affairs
2010-05-21 17:39:33 zerocomman: assuming the members aren't just going to kiss up to staff all the time
2010-05-21 17:39:34 Pie: if anyone's confused
2010-05-21 17:39:34 Scott: LA is inactive right now
2010-05-21 17:39:39 Angel: LA needs more members and to be made more public, not many people know of it's existance...
2010-05-21 17:39:40 Ross: who? FatTony?
2010-05-21 17:39:40 Zorg: Basically 2 members of LA are inactive, most issues covered are stuff that could just be ticketed to Lucas anyway.
2010-05-21 17:39:45 Ross: he might aswell be staff
2010-05-21 17:39:50 Food: I have a question, Does Legacy affairs get used as is?
2010-05-21 17:39:51 Ross: you need more less biased views
2010-05-21 17:39:57 bcfcespley: exactly ross lol
2010-05-21 17:39:58 Pie: LA gets used
2010-05-21 17:40:00 Ross: more less?
2010-05-21 17:40:02 Ross: anyway
2010-05-21 17:40:02 bcfcespley: about to say that
2010-05-21 17:40:04 Ross: point stands
2010-05-21 17:40:05 Zorg: Legacy Affairs right now raises 1 issue every 2 months or so apparently to Lucas
2010-05-21 17:40:05 jonkers: Maybe have a set number from each gang?
2010-05-21 17:40:11 Pie: I get approached by faelust occasionally
2010-05-21 17:40:16 Bernard721: I went to LA with a legitimate question, and I've never gotten a reply
2010-05-21 17:40:18 bcfcespley: please
2010-05-21 17:40:26 bcfcespley: whats the point in having it
2010-05-21 17:40:29 Zorg: FatTony and calciomoti do not reply to messages much at all.
2010-05-21 17:40:50 Zorg: The idea seemed good at the time but it never really got used as it was intended.
2010-05-21 17:40:53 Tibos: idk about Calcio, but FT is pretty active as a mod
2010-05-21 17:41:00 Angel: I propose more active/responsive members who are rustworthy to give as non-biased pov as possible.
2010-05-21 17:41:03 bcfcespley: we have a staff team, some biased players opinion matters not much to me
2010-05-21 17:41:06 Zorg: He is active as a mod but he takes 2-3 days to reply to me via PM :/
2010-05-21 17:41:07 Angel: trust*
2010-05-21 17:41:10 Scott: alot of peopel go to faelust
2010-05-21 17:41:12 Ross: thats the only reason FT is active anymore
2010-05-21 17:41:20 Scott: I have to say she is one player that gets things done
2010-05-21 17:41:21 Ross: hes power drunk lol
2010-05-21 17:41:25 Scott: and is fair on both sides
2010-05-21 17:41:26 darp: Legacy Affairs has been both timely and effective for me thus far. Would like a few more members from each gang... maybe some public presence, but not sure.
2010-05-21 17:41:40 Zorg: We could just shutdown Legacy Affairs... and hand that job to the Elders...
2010-05-21 17:41:41 Risque: Public presence is a good idea
2010-05-21 17:41:47 Food: I don't think we need LA to be honest, why go through all the trouble of finding trust worthy players when we can just make sure we have trust worthy staff to begin with?
2010-05-21 17:41:50 Bernard721: Oh boy... Circular discussion
2010-05-21 17:41:51 KevinMp: i guess that could work
2010-05-21 17:41:58 Pie: wouldn't that include giving Elders access to RC..?
2010-05-21 17:41:59 Pie: >.>
2010-05-21 17:41:59 Tibos: sounds like a resonable idea
2010-05-21 17:42:00 bcfcespley: I went to LA before, load of rubbish got no replies at all
2010-05-21 17:42:02 Ross: yeah thats a good idea zorg
2010-05-21 17:42:03 KevinMp: elders could do both :)
2010-05-21 17:42:07 Zorg: No, just access to admin_log's
2010-05-21 17:42:10 Scott: hmm
2010-05-21 17:42:10 zerocomman: i agree. it makes sense to consolidate
2010-05-21 17:42:11 Bernard721: That could work
2010-05-21 17:42:11 Zorg: and forum_logs and such
2010-05-21 17:42:17 Scott: Ross with access to RC logs
2010-05-21 17:42:19 jonkers: That leads us to who should be elders.
2010-05-21 17:42:21 bcfcespley: hahaha
2010-05-21 17:42:22 Scott: i see a car crash
2010-05-21 17:42:24 Ross: whats RC?
2010-05-21 17:42:31 Pie: move them out of RC? or just copy them? o.0
2010-05-21 17:42:34 Tibos: but in that case, i would reduce the number of people in the CoE
2010-05-21 17:42:36 Scott: Staff System
2010-05-21 17:42:41 Scott: right
2010-05-21 17:42:42 Zorg: Then Elders could discuss staff decisions when there are no updates to talk about.
2010-05-21 17:42:49 Ross: sounds good
2010-05-21 17:42:53 KevinMp: ::yes::
2010-05-21 17:42:54 Zorg: This is the point in the discussion where I wanted Lucas' feedback as well -_-
2010-05-21 17:42:55 Pie: i don't like that idea
2010-05-21 17:42:55 Food: Sounds like a plan.
2010-05-21 17:42:56 darp: Mmm... worth trying.
2010-05-21 17:42:56 Bernard721: I approve
2010-05-21 17:43:07 Ross: Lucas is too busy swiping off
2010-05-21 17:43:15 Risque: Can Elders veto a staff decision, by majority vote and with good reason?
2010-05-21 17:43:25 Scott: Not really ..
2010-05-21 17:43:27 Zorg: Erm, no...
2010-05-21 17:43:30 Ross: Lol
2010-05-21 17:43:32 Tibos: {xd}
2010-05-21 17:43:33 bcfcespley: {XD}{XD}
2010-05-21 17:43:40 Scott: if someone does an offense
2010-05-21 17:43:40 Zorg: Again... NOT a democracy, lol
2010-05-21 17:43:45 Scott: then theyre going to get punished
2010-05-21 17:43:46 Pie: Staff should enforce the rules, and be reviewed by the Staff Manager..
2010-05-21 17:43:46 Bernard721: 1000c to vote against my Ban
2010-05-21 17:43:47 Bernard721: Gogogogogo!
2010-05-21 17:43:47 Pie: Lucas
2010-05-21 17:43:57 Ross: Lucas should be fired
2010-05-21 17:44:00 Ross: Lucas...
2010-05-21 17:44:04 bcfcespley: promote scott lol
2010-05-21 17:44:09 bcfcespley: only one who bothers around here
2010-05-21 17:44:09 Scott: you cant exactly say "he fell asleep whislt on the enter button" if i -4 someome that has 3 spam offences this year
2010-05-21 17:44:09 Food: ^^ Agree with Pie.
2010-05-21 17:44:18 Scott: ive heard that excuse 5 times now
2010-05-21 17:44:24 Zorg: yes and Lucas should be active in the Elders forum in their review of logs
2010-05-21 17:44:26 Scott: i fell asleep .. my ass
2010-05-21 17:44:47 Zorg: We're not talking about giving Elders any power over staff decisions... and we dont really have anything to hide. :/
2010-05-21 17:44:57 Zorg: Most staff decisions are based on a pre-determined ruleset written by the staff manager anyway.
2010-05-21 17:45:06 Ross: except Deegs corpse?
2010-05-21 17:45:26 Bernard721: The Staff Manager seems really active....
2010-05-21 17:45:30 Scott: Deegs threads have pretty much been reviewed by Lucas and are upto date
2010-05-21 17:45:30 Tibos: so we get to check up on staff and tell Lucas when he needs to spank someone?
2010-05-21 17:45:35 Scott: and Lucas is active
2010-05-21 17:45:39 Zorg: Account Admins collect evidence, review account history and determine a punishment based on rules defined by Deeg and Lucas... that should be easily defendable if questioned. :/
2010-05-21 17:46:03 Pie: I think that a group as large as the Elders wouldn't be capable of making decisions on Staff issues
2010-05-21 17:46:14 Pie: if there is a group, i think expanding LA slightly is the best option
2010-05-21 17:46:18 Risque: That was part of my point, Zorg. Staff isn't all knowing O.o
2010-05-21 17:46:19 Scott: Elders will be reduced once inactive have been kicked by myself :D
2010-05-21 17:46:21 Zorg: They wouldn't be making decisions though.
2010-05-21 17:46:27 darp: Then expand LA a bit. It has worked very well for me.
2010-05-21 17:46:27 Pie: i meant
2010-05-21 17:46:33 Pie: reviewing staff decisions when needed
2010-05-21 17:46:53 Pie: Lucas does the same job as LA
2010-05-21 17:46:55 Angel: so if LA turns into Elders job aswell, what will decide Elders, wold you use the method i suggested? Oh applications then reviewing within the Elders forum?
2010-05-21 17:47:04 Scott: Bit of both Angel
2010-05-21 17:47:05 Ross: or, incoprorate less biased views and let the elders do it?
2010-05-21 17:47:20 Scott: Elders has alot of bias people in it :P
2010-05-21 17:47:21 Ross: and give them more purpose in the process
2010-05-21 17:47:21 Angel: to me that sounds like the best approach
2010-05-21 17:47:22 Pie: the expanded LA wouldn't be biased
2010-05-21 17:47:28 Ross: its universal to gangs though
2010-05-21 17:47:32 Angel: but they are just giving input
2010-05-21 17:47:32 Pie: I think getting respected community members would be good
2010-05-21 17:47:35 Scott: Ross you cant exactly say you're unbiased :P
2010-05-21 17:47:35 Angel: like always
2010-05-21 17:47:39 KevinMp: Pie yes :O
2010-05-21 17:47:39 Zorg: Yes the problem is players dont trust a single individual to be unbiased and watch over staff... they didn't trust Deeg and I doubt they trust Lucas any more.
2010-05-21 17:47:41 Angel: it is ultimately a staff decision
2010-05-21 17:47:47 Bernard721: PLayers should have access to their own personal crime history
2010-05-21 17:47:51 Bernard721: That was really random
2010-05-21 17:47:52 Scott: Nope
2010-05-21 17:47:52 Bernard721: But yea.
2010-05-21 17:47:56 Scott: Not happening
2010-05-21 17:47:57 Zorg: Making the staff process more transparent would solve that.
2010-05-21 17:48:05 darp: Agreed with Zorg on both points.
2010-05-21 17:48:10 Pie: But who do they think chooses who's in LA, Zorg?
2010-05-21 17:48:21 Pie: the same person that chooses who the staff manager is..
2010-05-21 17:48:28 Zorg: When you assign overseeing power to a single person, most players will assume they're friends with all the staff and in it for the power, etc, etc
2010-05-21 17:48:42 Zorg: I picked the LA :/
2010-05-21 17:48:48 Pie: you also picked Lucas
2010-05-21 17:48:49 Zorg: Originally the staff manager couldnt even view their forum
2010-05-21 17:48:52 darp: You don't have to pull the curtain all the way back for every one to see, but there is benefit to people thinking they have some insight or influence on things.
2010-05-21 17:48:53 Ross: to be fair though, Lucas is more likely to just accept the staffs decision than turn around and say it was wrong
2010-05-21 17:48:59 bcfcespley: yeah me sucking zorg of had me nothing to do with being able to do graphics
2010-05-21 17:49:00 Pie: so why shouldn't they doubt your decisons on one and not the other?
2010-05-21 17:49:05 Scott: Actually
2010-05-21 17:49:10 KevinMp: bcfcespley -_- lol
2010-05-21 17:49:17 Scott: Lucas reverted 2 of my decisions when I was rank 2
2010-05-21 17:49:26 Scott: He does his job.
2010-05-21 17:49:31 darp: And Staff managers have *never* done due dilligence that I've seen in investigating or communicationg staff/player issues.
2010-05-21 17:49:34 Bernard721: Checks and balances are a mighty thing
2010-05-21 17:49:35 bcfcespley: BUT
2010-05-21 17:49:39 Tibos: groups are more trustworthy than a single person
2010-05-21 17:49:41 bcfcespley: i think scott would do a better job
2010-05-21 17:49:48 Zorg: Of course Lucas is, thats how chains of command work. I'd always side with staff even if they were wrong, i'd then yell at them in private after...
2010-05-21 17:49:50 Scott: I'm fine as development manager
2010-05-21 17:49:57 Ross: Lol
2010-05-21 17:50:04 Pie: It's true.. xD
2010-05-21 17:50:10 darp: Oh dear.
2010-05-21 17:50:11 Zorg: You have to present a unified front as a staff team.
2010-05-21 17:50:11 bcfcespley: lol ive been yelled at {XD}
2010-05-21 17:50:16 Zorg: And keep the arguements in private.
2010-05-21 17:50:37 Scott: Right so to recap
2010-05-21 17:50:38 Bernard721: Not to be that guy, and bring in politics... but I mean a congress of elected representives, like the LA would be a great thing to have to review staff decisions
2010-05-21 17:50:42 Scott: Bigger LA team or Edlers ?
2010-05-21 17:50:48 Ross: Elders
2010-05-21 17:50:49 Bernard721: Elders
2010-05-21 17:50:50 Scott: Elders*
2010-05-21 17:50:51 bcfcespley: Elders
2010-05-21 17:50:53 Pascal: elders
2010-05-21 17:50:54 Tibos: i sai 16 elders
2010-05-21 17:50:54 Pie: Larger selection of LA
2010-05-21 17:50:55 Angel: Elders
2010-05-21 17:50:55 007Ben: elders
2010-05-21 17:50:59 Scott: Or
2010-05-21 17:51:00 Food: LA
2010-05-21 17:51:07 Scott: one sec 2010-05-21 17:51:09 Scott: i have an idea
2010-05-21 17:51:15 Zorg: I just think making staff decisions public to the Elders... and the rules that govern staff decisions public to the Elders... would lead to very little discussion on their part as they would understand our position.
2010-05-21 17:51:16 Pie: a group as large as the elders would be inefficient.. -.-
2010-05-21 17:51:18 Scott: La can only be picked from elders
2010-05-21 17:51:19 darp: Hmm... outvoted. :P Was going to say bigger LA team, but try with the Elders. See if it solves the inactivity problem.
2010-05-21 17:51:26 Zorg: Unless our position is in some way flawed, in which case they have every right to argue with it.
2010-05-21 17:51:32 Scott: so youd have to progress to elder before you could have a shot at LA ?
2010-05-21 17:51:43 Pie: Pick LA from elders
2010-05-21 17:51:45 Pie: problem solved
2010-05-21 17:51:46 darp: Or LA grabbed from Elders could work,.
2010-05-21 17:51:46 Bernard721: That could work too
2010-05-21 17:51:49 KevinMp: that sounds fair i guess
2010-05-21 17:51:52 Pie: darp : win
2010-05-21 17:51:53 Bernard721: A higher chain
2010-05-21 17:51:54 Pie: 8)
2010-05-21 17:51:54 Scott: thats what i said darp
2010-05-21 17:51:55 Food: That works Scott.
2010-05-21 17:51:55 Scott: XD
2010-05-21 17:52:05 Zorg: Did darp just out-vote everybody with one vote? wtf
2010-05-21 17:52:14 Ross: how would that change anything?
2010-05-21 17:52:17 Pie: i beat him to saying it dammit
2010-05-21 17:52:20 Ross: it would still be faelust, FT and calcio...
2010-05-21 17:52:21 Tibos: no, he has a good point
2010-05-21 17:52:23 jonkers: Have we decided on who should be elders?
2010-05-21 17:52:24 Scott: Nope
2010-05-21 17:52:29 Scott: once we de-weed elders
2010-05-21 17:52:31 Bernard721: A meeting in ONline Chat of elders can solve so many things.. I mean just look at this.. 4 representives from 4 gangs having a discussion
2010-05-21 17:52:37 Zorg: Inactive Elders will be removed, the remaining Elders....
2010-05-21 17:52:41 Scott: im sure La will start to collect members from my teah
2010-05-21 17:52:41 Zorg: will decide who the new Elders will be
2010-05-21 17:52:43 darp: lol... I'm lagging a bit. :P
2010-05-21 17:52:47 Ross: right
2010-05-21 17:52:48 Scott: team*
2010-05-21 17:52:49 Zorg: and then all those people combined... will decide who the LA people will be
2010-05-21 17:53:01 KevinMp: sounds like a plan ::yes::
2010-05-21 17:53:07 Scott: ok
2010-05-21 17:53:08 darp: Go with that and review next LegCon.
2010-05-21 17:53:15 Risque: I concur
2010-05-21 17:53:15 jonkers: What about a max number of elders?
2010-05-21 17:53:18 Zorg: And how do we suggest we make the secret group within the secret Elders public knowledge to those confused as to why they were banned? :/
2010-05-21 17:53:26 Rotten: like 50 elders max
2010-05-21 17:53:38 bcfcespley: ok zorg just confused me {XD}
2010-05-21 17:53:40 Ross: have an LA rep?
2010-05-21 17:53:41 Tibos: 50 is a big number :P
2010-05-21 17:53:42 jonkers: I think 50 is too many
2010-05-21 17:53:47 Pie: a rep sounds good
2010-05-21 17:53:47 Ross: who is responsible for explaining
2010-05-21 17:53:52 Zorg: It will stay around 20 or so people
2010-05-21 17:53:53 Pie: With a thread somehere
2010-05-21 17:53:59 KevinMp: 50 = too many. try... 20? ish?
2010-05-21 17:54:00 Pie: or a page displaying information
2010-05-21 17:54:09 jonkers: What about a max number per gang?
2010-05-21 17:54:14 Ross: no
2010-05-21 17:54:14 bcfcespley: no jonkers
2010-05-21 17:54:16 Scott: Hopefully elder control can be added to RC in the day :P
2010-05-21 17:54:18 bcfcespley: because people do move gangs :/
2010-05-21 17:54:19 darp: Community Menu link to a page?
2010-05-21 17:54:20 Zorg: Elders and LA are independant of gangs. :/
2010-05-21 17:54:22 Tibos: CoE has nothing to do with gangs
2010-05-21 17:54:26 Bernard721: Ok.. so we're having an applation process into the LA? How are Elders elected... did we resolve that yet?
2010-05-21 17:54:27 Zorg: I dont want it to have any attachment to gangs at all
2010-05-21 17:54:33 Angel: Zorg Elders picking who becomes Elder would like to biased choosing... If there was a staff member to take it interest, then brought to the attention of the Elders, it would feel less like a lolly bag, picking the best ones you like...
2010-05-21 17:54:36 Pie: create an open forum where the new LA can review Staff and the discussion be viewed by everyone
2010-05-21 17:54:41 Pie: but only the LA can post..
2010-05-21 17:54:44 Scott: Right now angel
2010-05-21 17:54:45 Zorg: As far as I'm concerned one of the rules of the Elder forum will be that gangs dont exist there.
2010-05-21 17:54:53 Scott: i like the idea of elders suggesting and applications
2010-05-21 17:54:53 Ross: fair enough
2010-05-21 17:55:03 Zorg: ooo like a security forum only instead of staff using it...
2010-05-21 17:55:04 Zorg: LA members?
2010-05-21 17:55:08 bcfcespley: lets face it how is heggs not in coe? {XD}
2010-05-21 17:55:08 jonkers: sounds good
2010-05-21 17:55:13 Pie: yep
2010-05-21 17:55:16 Scott: heggs is in coe ...
2010-05-21 17:55:17 Food: Elders reommand people, scott reviews them and makes a dicision?
2010-05-21 17:55:20 bcfcespley: oh {XD}
2010-05-21 17:55:20 Ross: she is...
2010-05-21 17:55:25 Ross: BCFCEEJIT
2010-05-21 17:55:29 Zorg: could try that I guess... like a public forum run by legacy affairs
2010-05-21 17:55:33 Scott: see i know my own members 8~)
2010-05-21 17:55:36 Scott: 8) * :P
2010-05-21 17:55:40 Pie: but in security, everyone can post.. in the LA one, remove the option to post for anybody else
2010-05-21 17:55:43 darp: Good.
2010-05-21 17:55:46 KevinMp: so... players nominate people. staff then chooses from those
2010-05-21 17:55:55 KevinMp: and they become elders, who choose LA?
2010-05-21 17:56:01 Zorg: erm no
2010-05-21 17:56:02 zerocomman: elders choose la
2010-05-21 17:56:04 Ross: elders choose the elders...
2010-05-21 17:56:08 KevinMp: o other way around. oops
2010-05-21 17:56:13 KevinMp: but same thing?
2010-05-21 17:56:15 Zorg: Elders choose Elders... Elders choose LA.
2010-05-21 17:56:15 Scott: We're going in circles here
2010-05-21 17:56:23 Zorg: If you're not an Elder... you have no say in either
2010-05-21 17:56:23 KevinMp: :O intriguing :P
2010-05-21 17:56:29 Pie: xD
2010-05-21 17:56:34 Ross: Lol
2010-05-21 17:56:38 Zorg: I asked if people wanted to keep it an elitist invite only group, you guys said yes :P
2010-05-21 17:56:39 Bernard721: So we're weeding out the inactives, and they will eventually pick new ones
2010-05-21 17:56:40 Tibos: power hungry old people
2010-05-21 17:56:47 Scott: I'm guessing myself and Zorg will run Elders and Lucas and Zorg will run LA still
2010-05-21 17:56:55 KevinMp: but on what grounds do they pick these people?
2010-05-21 17:56:59 Pie: Elders i thought were running LA
2010-05-21 17:57:00 Angel: staff gathers those that are interested, filters out the 'not going to happen', then brings rhe list to the attention of the Elders, they decide who amongst the list who would best fit the role, the staff then either agrees with them, suggests an alternat
2010-05-21 17:57:01 KevinMp: what prereqs should they have?
2010-05-21 17:57:10 Angel: ive, or decides against it, and says why
2010-05-21 17:57:11 Zorg: Erm, I doubt I'll be involved in Legacy Affairs... staff decisions have never been something I'm interested in :/
2010-05-21 17:57:17 Zorg: that's why I have staff and a staff manager :(
2010-05-21 17:57:23 Bernard721: {XD}
2010-05-21 17:57:30 Scott: So you're going to butcher my elders
2010-05-21 17:57:32 Zorg: I just want to make cool stuff
2010-05-21 17:57:42 Food: Lol Zorg. {xd}
2010-05-21 17:57:45 Scott: Saying cool, my flag people :d
2010-05-21 17:57:54 KevinMp: scott... shush {XD}
2010-05-21 17:57:59 KevinMp: we discuss your flag latah! :O
2010-05-21 17:58:01 Bernard721: Already been an hour... lets get to the fun stuff...
2010-05-21 17:58:06 Zorg: Ok, hmm there was one last thing I wanted to talk about.
2010-05-21 17:58:23 Zorg: ...lemme remember what it was
2010-05-21 17:58:29 Risque: ::roll::
2010-05-21 17:58:31 KevinMp: something about wl perhaps?
2010-05-21 17:58:32 jonkers: :/
2010-05-21 17:58:32 Scott: Dev, wiki?
2010-05-21 17:58:34 Food: Zorg getting old. :O
2010-05-21 17:58:39 Tibos: so....recap Elders pick Elders, Elders pick LA people, Security Forum comes back for others to submit wrong staff decisions?
2010-05-21 17:58:39 Scott: Destorying apart of the game?
2010-05-21 17:58:53 Bernard721: WL/Duel System/Abilities time {ebil}
2010-05-21 17:58:57 Ross: combat achievements :D
2010-05-21 17:58:57 Pie: that's not what i was aiming at, Tibos
2010-05-21 17:58:58 KevinMp: YAY!
2010-05-21 17:59:10 Scott: Ross getting his account removed :P
2010-05-21 17:59:11 Pie: Security Forum returns for LA to discuss, with everybody else onlooking
2010-05-21 17:59:21 Scott: Pie
2010-05-21 17:59:24 Scott: gtfo off my color
2010-05-21 17:59:27 Tibos: isn't that a bit public?
2010-05-21 17:59:30 Pie: Zorg told me to use Purple
2010-05-21 17:59:36 bcfcespley: zorg could you tell us the systems your working on, in what order and the rough time scale?
2010-05-21 17:59:37 Pie: Why shouldn't it be public?
2010-05-21 17:59:50 Pie: how can people have confidence in something they know nothing about?
2010-05-21 17:59:51 KevinMp: ok we all wanna no when the BIG update is comin :P
2010-05-21 17:59:56 Zorg: Yeah the new stuff I'm working on I guess.
2010-05-21 17:59:57 Scott: bcfc right now, Main Page and bug fixes :P and duel
2010-05-21 18:00:01 Tibos: that's how LA was and darp was pleased with it
2010-05-21 18:00:07 bcfcespley: no what i mean is
2010-05-21 18:00:12 Pie: And he was about the only person
2010-05-21 18:00:15 bcfcespley: when will he get around to say achievements
2010-05-21 18:00:22 Zorg: Ok first, the current player count.
2010-05-21 18:00:31 Zorg: It hasn't actually dropped, as such.
2010-05-21 18:00:32 Scott: Next few months bcfc
2010-05-21 18:00:41 KevinMp: oo before we go to far...
2010-05-21 18:00:46 Zorg: What has happened is we've stopped advertising and I've stopped paying attention to our voting sites.
2010-05-21 18:00:50 KevinMp: have you considered in game ads yet?
2010-05-21 18:00:52 Zorg: Gold listing Legacy and stuff.
2010-05-21 18:01:12 Scott: ...
2010-05-21 18:01:13 KevinMp: Hmm... im trying to think about how i found this game
2010-05-21 18:01:16 Zorg: Basically this is the result of playing the game myself at various level brackets and being deeply unsatisified with the experience.
2010-05-21 18:01:17 Scott: we're not having ingame ads
2010-05-21 18:01:25 Zorg: It makes me not want to spend money advertising right now.
2010-05-21 18:01:29 KevinMp: i dont even remember how i found it
2010-05-21 18:01:29 Pascal: get more ways to get subtime, so we have more advertisements means more new players?
2010-05-21 18:01:31 bcfcespley: advertisment vid on youtube, its free!
2010-05-21 18:01:36 Scott: bcfc
2010-05-21 18:01:43 Bernard721: Advertising what though Bcf?
2010-05-21 18:01:46 Bernard721: Text?
2010-05-21 18:01:47 Bernard721: :/
2010-05-21 18:01:47 Scott: how is watching a screen on a browser based game interestic
2010-05-21 18:01:49 Scott: OMG
2010-05-21 18:01:54 Zorg: The old player count was the result of the current player count + the constant new players coming and going.
2010-05-21 18:01:55 Scott: the square changed coor *signs up*
2010-05-21 18:01:55 KevinMp: that comes down to selling it :P
2010-05-21 18:02:02 Scott: color*
2010-05-21 18:02:03 bcfcespley: not like that you idiot
2010-05-21 18:02:16 bcfcespley: get someone to make a good video
2010-05-21 18:02:16 Angel: work on the achievements
2010-05-21 18:02:18 Food: Stay on topic please.
2010-05-21 18:02:24 Scott: Cant exactly make Legacy look like anything other than what it is
2010-05-21 18:02:24 Zorg: So the drop is purely the result in the stopping of advertising, I could get the player count back to 3000-4000 by starting again.
2010-05-21 18:02:25 Angel: so people will want to refer people they like
2010-05-21 18:02:31 Angel: and people will get along easier
2010-05-21 18:02:33 Zorg: But I'd rather wait until the new combat and things are done.
2010-05-21 18:02:38 bcfcespley: you can scott lol
2010-05-21 18:02:39 Zorg: And relaunch the game with new advertisements and such.
2010-05-21 18:02:40 Tibos: bcf, i'm sure that if you or someone else makes a good video, Zorg would use it
2010-05-21 18:02:42 bcfcespley: its called false advertising
2010-05-21 18:02:43 KevinMp: can we offer monetary vaule to those who refer people?
2010-05-21 18:02:47 bcfcespley: movie makers do it all the time {XD}
2010-05-21 18:02:49 KevinMp: other than achievements, like...
2010-05-21 18:02:49 Pascal: well get more ways to get subtime...
2010-05-21 18:02:52 Zorg: bcfc stop
2010-05-21 18:02:54 Scott: Thats illegal by UK law and legacy will be sued
2010-05-21 18:02:55 KevinMp: 1k per person that gets to level 10?
2010-05-21 18:02:58 Zorg: Like I said I have no interest in advertising at the moment
2010-05-21 18:03:01 HappyDays: have we discussed revenue ideas for the game yet to ensure zorg can spend more time on the game ???
2010-05-21 18:03:10 Zorg: My revenue is fine.
2010-05-21 18:03:15 Bernard721: Referal system needs an overhaul...
2010-05-21 18:03:21 Zorg: For now anyway.
2010-05-21 18:03:25 HappyDays: :P
2010-05-21 18:03:37 HappyDays: So it would be of benefit to ensure a steady stream
2010-05-21 18:03:41 HappyDays: For a rainy day
2010-05-21 18:04:08 Zorg: I'm not concerned about money, I want to make the game far more fun especially at early levels before relaunching it with new advertisements.
2010-05-21 18:04:18 KevinMp: Hmmm
2010-05-21 18:04:21 Ross: get the achievements done zorg
2010-05-21 18:04:22 Zorg: That is what all the planned changes are about.
2010-05-21 18:04:29 Ross: always adds a fun dimension
2010-05-21 18:04:31 KevinMp: maybe make the first few levels easier to get?
2010-05-21 18:04:33 Zorg: Again achievements are low priority
2010-05-21 18:04:34 Food: I agree wi9th ross, we need achievements.
2010-05-21 18:04:38 Bernard721: I desire much more in depth role play..
2010-05-21 18:04:42 zerocomman: kevinmp this game is already easy enough 2010-05-21 18:04:45 Zorg: I'm talking about rebuilding the core stuff that makes the game, not working on small side things
2010-05-21 18:04:47 KevinMp: cuz when i logged onto dev, i kind of gave up on leveling.
2010-05-21 18:04:48 Pie: Bernard : Join DF
2010-05-21 18:04:54 Bernard721: I'll pass.
2010-05-21 18:04:55 Pie: they kill you if you don't partake in it
2010-05-21 18:04:56 KevinMp: oo the core. ok
2010-05-21 18:04:59 zerocomman: it's just boring. if eveyone is honest, they are here 90% for the community
2010-05-21 18:05:04 Tibos: {ebil}
2010-05-21 18:05:20 Pascal: kind of quests for them? like attack your enemy, congrats you get 100 credits
2010-05-21 18:05:26 Scott: yeah but the community cant exactly help everything
2010-05-21 18:05:28 Pascal: just basics would do
2010-05-21 18:05:29 KevinMp: what were u planning for the new game overhaul?
2010-05-21 18:05:35 Scott: 20% of the community cry about legacy daily
2010-05-21 18:05:37 KevinMp: we need to knwo about that to incorporate more stuff :P
2010-05-21 18:05:41 Zorg: Yes the new combat alone will make warfare and leveling more fun... the other changes... removal of stats, shops and some others are designed to decrease needless complexity in systems.
2010-05-21 18:05:44 Pie: All details were posted in blogs? o.0
2010-05-21 18:05:53 KevinMp: honestly... we should see how that goes first
2010-05-21 18:05:58 Food: Achievements to me : Being able to work towards something and goals, also brings back some competetiveness(Real word?) to the game, which would bring back alot of activity from old and new players.
2010-05-21 18:06:09 Bernard721: Make a new tutorial system, where you earn credits/ability points/and stat points for new signups
2010-05-21 18:06:13 zerocomman: food nailed it
2010-05-21 18:06:18 HappyDays: is the level 80 to 85 thing in the pipeline
2010-05-21 18:06:18 Food: I think achievements have alot of potential.
2010-05-21 18:06:24 Scott: people have yet to earn the current achievements
2010-05-21 18:06:25 Zorg: Yes I agree, achievements worked really well in games like World of Warcraft.
2010-05-21 18:06:31 HappyDays: I liked the idea of fighting my way to the top
2010-05-21 18:06:43 HappyDays: but dropping if I went inACTIVE
2010-05-21 18:06:46 Zorg: But I can't add achievements for systems that are going to be vastly changed by the rebuild.
2010-05-21 18:06:52 HappyDays: Gives you something to do when you return again
2010-05-21 18:06:58 KevinMp: so we need the new system in first
2010-05-21 18:07:02 Zorg: HappyDays that idea would suck with the current combat system though.
2010-05-21 18:07:03 Scott: ontop of that theyre not working correctly atm
2010-05-21 18:07:08 Tibos: HD that's the spectral item idea
2010-05-21 18:07:15 Zorg: The new one I'm designing takes a genuine degree of skill to be good at though, so could work.
2010-05-21 18:07:27 Angel: how will it be more fun? are you going to change the look? the same applies with FT's point in the forums, this game is text based, it goes page by page, how can that change? what is this system you seem to be working on? and why wasn't the great tertis
2010-05-21 18:07:31 Angel: idea used? :P
2010-05-21 18:07:40 Food: No offence to the idea HD suggested, but that will get old quick..just like spectral.
2010-05-21 18:07:52 KevinMp: april fools joke ftw {XD}
2010-05-21 18:08:03 Tibos: text game != non-interactive
2010-05-21 18:08:09 HappyDays: thats not my idea
2010-05-21 18:08:16 HappyDays: and i did not suggest it :p
2010-05-21 18:08:24 Angel: it is as interactive as it gets
2010-05-21 18:08:25 Food: I know, can't recall who did. :P
2010-05-21 18:08:31 Zorg: But yeah I've been adding new stuff on top of the game for years and our player count hasn't increased. This is what caused me to take a step back and look at what was wrong with the stuff we have in place already.
2010-05-21 18:08:37 Angel: so thoughts for 'more' is limited
2010-05-21 18:08:42 Zorg: No amount of new stuff is going to fix the problems, it's time to rebuild the old stuff.
2010-05-21 18:08:49 Scott: like clans :(
2010-05-21 18:08:58 Zorg: no not like clans
2010-05-21 18:09:01 Zorg: clans again are a side system
2010-05-21 18:09:06 Ross: go Zorg Thatcher!
2010-05-21 18:09:09 HappyDays: zorg can we have a buddy system game wide
2010-05-21 18:09:13 Scott: but theyre still old :P
2010-05-21 18:09:20 HappyDays: for example noob 1 signs up and gets sent a mail
2010-05-21 18:09:25 Zorg: It's the core of the game I'm addressing with these changes, stats, items, fighting, warfare, turns, jobs... the stuff people spend most of their time using.
2010-05-21 18:09:30 Scott: We have guides for that HappyDays
2010-05-21 18:09:37 HappyDays: saying happysays would be delighted to get to know you
2010-05-21 18:09:43 Ross: zorg, is the combat system highest priority then?
2010-05-21 18:09:43 Angel: no amount of new stuff is going to fix the problems, you said it yourself, why spend all this time changing it, if the problem remains?
2010-05-21 18:09:48 HappyDays: drop him a mail if you wish
2010-05-21 18:09:53 HappyDays: to beuild friendships
2010-05-21 18:10:00 HappyDays: build
2010-05-21 18:10:09 HappyDays: and so creating bonds
2010-05-21 18:10:09 Pie: nothing is being added on..
2010-05-21 18:10:12 Pie: it's being rebuilt..
2010-05-21 18:10:12 Zorg: Anyway I've explained all this in my blog already.
2010-05-21 18:10:17 Tibos: indeed
2010-05-21 18:10:34 Scott: ok
2010-05-21 18:10:48 Scott: I'm now goign to ask gangs to raise any points
2010-05-21 18:10:50 Scott: so DF
2010-05-21 18:10:56 Scott: do you have any issues you want to raise
2010-05-21 18:11:01 jonkers: we do
2010-05-21 18:11:04 Tibos: sure
2010-05-21 18:11:11 jonkers: Tibos wil out line the main points
2010-05-21 18:11:11 Scott: Go ahead
2010-05-21 18:11:19 KevinMp: Nows ur chance BoD. send me ur stuff. i already marked whats in the forums
2010-05-21 18:11:38 jonkers: Kevin DF are talking.
2010-05-21 18:11:44 Tibos: to blunt it out, we think there needs to be a more drastic cost to switching gangs
2010-05-21 18:11:49 KevinMp: :*( lol
2010-05-21 18:11:52 Tibos: or perhaps a change alltogether
2010-05-21 18:11:57 Scott: 500c is alot to a level 20
2010-05-21 18:12:00 bcfcespley: you werent complaining last year
2010-05-21 18:12:01 Zorg: that was the point of gang reps
2010-05-21 18:12:05 jonkers: or a total ban on changing gang during a WL round.
2010-05-21 18:12:07 bcfcespley: when everyone was joining you
2010-05-21 18:12:07 Zorg: to make it harder to switch
2010-05-21 18:12:13 Tibos: bcf, i actually was ;)
2010-05-21 18:12:15 Zorg: hush bcfc
2010-05-21 18:12:26 Tibos: anyway, 2 ideas crossed our minds
2010-05-21 18:12:35 Tibos: 1) increase cost for multiple joins in a period of time
2010-05-21 18:12:48 SlickVic: I would suggest a time limit on joining another after leaving one.
2010-05-21 18:12:53 Tibos: ex: join DF cost 500c. Join OC a week later cost 1000c
2010-05-21 18:12:57 Scott: So for example 500c the first time.. 750 the second and so on ?
2010-05-21 18:12:59 SlickVic: 2 weeks or something
2010-05-21 18:13:11 Scott: Is gang hopping a big problem ?
2010-05-21 18:13:19 Tibos: and the cost gets reset after a small while
2010-05-21 18:13:23 Scott: i mean. Its a cost to one gang but a gain to another?
2010-05-21 18:13:26 Pie: it's a game.. if yuo're not having fun in a gang you joined, why should you have to stay there? -.-
2010-05-21 18:13:27 Food: It's a game, people should be free to come and go as they wish on here, the system we have now is fine.
2010-05-21 18:13:34 zerocomman: however, it drives who dominates the wl each round
2010-05-21 18:13:40 zerocomman: i've been both on winning and losing sides of that
2010-05-21 18:13:40 Tibos: another idea is from football
2010-05-21 18:13:41 SlickVic: I don't consider it a problem
2010-05-21 18:14:00 Tibos: to minimize the interference in WL strategy, have a transfer window of 2 weeks at the start of each round
2010-05-21 18:14:01 Scott: ah but WF isnt just the members
2010-05-21 18:14:03 Ross: competitive balance is worse than MLB in this game {XD}
2010-05-21 18:14:06 Tibos: and 2 weeks after joining the game
2010-05-21 18:14:07 Scott: tatics come into play
2010-05-21 18:14:23 zerocomman: tactics are useless if you lack sheer numbers scott
2010-05-21 18:14:29 Ross: you need to make the repurcussions for leaving gangs much higher
2010-05-21 18:14:31 Angel: you don't penalise people staying and you shouldn't penalise them leaving, last time i checked, there is nothing against the rules about leaving a gang, just getting kicked by it...
2010-05-21 18:14:34 Zorg: I dont think forcing players to stay in gangs they do not wish to be in by cost or time limits solves anything.
2010-05-21 18:14:38 Scott: I've seen a team of 3 take down a building
2010-05-21 18:15:00 Scott: when i was a player myself and base would camp hq's with cloak so lower members could square grab
2010-05-21 18:15:04 Ross: or more incentives to stay in gangs longer
2010-05-21 18:15:09 Ross: gang loyalty honors banners please :D
2010-05-21 18:15:14 Tibos: that's a fair idea Ross
2010-05-21 18:15:19 Scott: Like banners?
2010-05-21 18:15:25 Ross: indeed
2010-05-21 18:15:34 Scott: hmm
2010-05-21 18:15:35 Zorg: I think if all the gangs find it a problem they could come with ideas between themselves to stop it.
2010-05-21 18:15:36 Rotten: Ross just wants more banners
2010-05-21 18:15:36 HappyDays: who cares about banners
2010-05-21 18:15:41 Ross: i do
2010-05-21 18:15:43 Angel: that doesn't help
2010-05-21 18:15:48 Pascal: I do
2010-05-21 18:15:49 Angel: as soon as they get the banner
2010-05-21 18:15:51 Tibos: @Zorg in the Senate Forum :P
2010-05-21 18:15:59 Angel: they will want to leave to get the othr gang related banners
2010-05-21 18:16:01 Ross: i've been in TC over 4 years
2010-05-21 18:16:06 Ross: noone has na excuse to leave gangs
2010-05-21 18:16:10 Ross: an*
2010-05-21 18:16:12 HappyDays: sure they do
2010-05-21 18:16:21 Zorg: The problem is when someone leaves your gang you're annoyed, when someone joins your gang you're happy... you give little consideration to who they gang hopped through to get to you.
2010-05-21 18:16:21 Bernard721: Yikes.
2010-05-21 18:16:24 Food: Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Time in gang, etc..going to be under the new achievements Bcfc?
2010-05-21 18:16:44 Ross: just have it as an honours banner
2010-05-21 18:16:46 Zorg: If I was running a gang I'd black list those who left after a short period of time, and then deny them entry if they tried to come back...
2010-05-21 18:16:48 bcfcespley: yeah food i have made it
2010-05-21 18:16:49 Zorg: But that's just me
2010-05-21 18:16:50 Rotten: I have a idea
2010-05-21 18:17:03 bcfcespley: i did make loyalty achievements
2010-05-21 18:17:05 Tibos: you banned that Zorg :P
2010-05-21 18:17:11 Food: There you go. :O
2010-05-21 18:17:14 Rotten: Could we have some sort of drafting for gangs? Like all the hoppers could be held in a draft
2010-05-21 18:17:25 Ross: wouldnt work
2010-05-21 18:17:30 HappyDays: how would that work rotten ??
2010-05-21 18:17:30 Ross: too much backlash
2010-05-21 18:17:33 KevinMp: they would leave for the gang they wanna b in :P
2010-05-21 18:17:38 Zorg: Make a rule... if you leave this gang and then come back you must spend 2 months at rank 1 before progressing...
2010-05-21 18:17:41 Angel: there you go again penalising peoples chooses to be different...
2010-05-21 18:17:47 Rotten: not my idea hd just passing on the word
2010-05-21 18:17:49 Scott: The problem with gang hopping is
2010-05-21 18:17:50 bcfcespley: ranks are useless lol
2010-05-21 18:17:53 Scott: its their choice to
2010-05-21 18:17:54 bcfcespley: its just a number to me
2010-05-21 18:17:57 Ross: noone cares enough for ranks anymore
2010-05-21 18:18:04 zerocomman: yea rank 1 as punishment does nothing
2010-05-21 18:18:07 Scott: if they dont liek one gang they will continue playing if they switch
2010-05-21 18:18:08 Pie: not your idea?
2010-05-21 18:18:09 Pie: %u05D3
2010-05-21 18:18:15 Pie: 23:17:37 [Rotten] I have a idea
2010-05-21 18:18:16 Bernard721: Going to cut my time here short... The discussions seem to be going really swimmingly.. I'll enjoy skimming the log tomorrow
2010-05-21 18:18:39 Zorg: I just dont see any suggestions that fix anything, if it is a problem.
2010-05-21 18:18:43 Food: I don't think there should be any penalty for leaving gangs, as I said..it's a game, people should be free to come and go, each gang has there own merits and appeals, I see no harm in people leaving one to check out another.
2010-05-21 18:18:53 Bernard721: Adios everyone ::yes::
2010-05-21 18:18:54 Zorg: You think someone is going to come help you in the wasteland if they're forced to stay due to a time limit or lack of credits?
2010-05-21 18:19:01 zerocomman: someone in df suggested that if someone switches gangs mid-map, they are not allowed access to wl until reset
2010-05-21 18:19:02 Angel: it's not a problem...
2010-05-21 18:19:05 HappyDays: oooooooooo did we discuss gang banks
2010-05-21 18:19:14 Angel: If it annoys you big deal, it happens everywhere
2010-05-21 18:19:26 Angel: people leave jobs for reasons that are none of your business
2010-05-21 18:19:28 Scott: one gang at a time happydays
2010-05-21 18:19:30 Zorg: ...again zero, people are not going to be forced in to helping a gang they do not wish to be part of
2010-05-21 18:19:35 Pie: denying access to wl is a horrible idea
2010-05-21 18:19:36 Tibos: fair enough
2010-05-21 18:19:45 Zorg: Forcing them to stay until the WL reset would only make them if anything... try to sabotage your efforts
2010-05-21 18:19:47 zerocomman: just speaking up for my peeps
2010-05-21 18:19:53 Pie: we know
2010-05-21 18:19:53 Tibos: should we move on to our second point?
2010-05-21 18:19:54 Pie: xD
2010-05-21 18:19:58 bcfcespley: oh thats what i wanted to discuss, the stand storage system {XD}
2010-05-21 18:19:59 Zorg: yes
2010-05-21 18:20:01 Scott: Yeah
2010-05-21 18:20:06 Scott: before we go in circles again
2010-05-21 18:20:17 Tibos: this is a rather touchy subject as it involves a lot of coding
2010-05-21 18:20:26 Scott: heh
2010-05-21 18:20:35 Tibos: i recently started a thread in Main Forum regarding the creation of a 5th gang
2010-05-21 18:20:37 Pie: i can hear the answer already
2010-05-21 18:20:52 Zorg: The player count is lower than when gangs were implemented and you want a new gang?
2010-05-21 18:20:52 Tibos: this has received quite a lot of support from players and very little critiques
2010-05-21 18:21:26 Tibos: yes and the main argument is that it would enchance the joy of warfare :D
2010-05-21 18:21:36 Scott: WF would need a total rework
2010-05-21 18:21:36 Angel: you try to abolish gang hopping, and yet add another gang to hop too?
2010-05-21 18:21:41 darp: lol
2010-05-21 18:21:42 Zorg: I can give you plenty of critique if you wish.
2010-05-21 18:21:45 bcfcespley: {XD}
2010-05-21 18:21:45 Scott: as most maps are catered for 4 hq's
2010-05-21 18:21:45 Tibos: and it would increase the usefullness of the gang ranks
2010-05-21 18:21:47 Rotten: make it 20x20 for 5 gangs
2010-05-21 18:21:59 Tibos: sure,
2010-05-21 18:22:01 KevinMp: would a square make sense anymore at that point?
2010-05-21 18:22:09 Zorg: For a start... blue, red, yellow, green and purple for avatars
2010-05-21 18:22:13 KevinMp: new maps would have to be created
2010-05-21 18:22:15 Zorg: The only color left for a new gang is Orange
2010-05-21 18:22:20 Zorg: bcfc is turning in his grave at that idea
2010-05-21 18:22:23 Pie: purple for staff*?
2010-05-21 18:22:25 Tibos: Brown
2010-05-21 18:22:25 bcfcespley: lmao
2010-05-21 18:22:30 Angel: i don't want to see a 5th gang
2010-05-21 18:22:32 bcfcespley: shut up {XD}
2010-05-21 18:22:32 darp: Even were it a good idea (and it's not) before all the updates isn't really the time to be thinking about this.
2010-05-21 18:22:34 Zorg: Brown is just dark orange -_-
2010-05-21 18:22:39 zerocomman: so we don't have a 5th gang just because bcfc doesn't like orange :/
2010-05-21 18:22:57 bcfcespley: he was joking...
2010-05-21 18:22:59 Zorg: No we dont have a 5th gang because Orange is very close to yellow and red. -_-
2010-05-21 18:23:04 darp: Zorg, put the hammer down.
2010-05-21 18:23:04 Scott: You dont have a 5th gang because we need to see a real reason for you to need one
2010-05-21 18:23:07 Zorg: But no thats not the only problem
2010-05-21 18:23:33 Zorg: For a start what do you think a 5th gang would address? what long term problems are going to be fixed by the number 5 instead of 4?... soon it would be populated by people I'm sure you'd dislike just as much
2010-05-21 18:23:49 Tibos: gang alliances
2010-05-21 18:23:49 Zorg: Soon it will have a council just like the other gangs and be no different... it wont be new it will just be ANOTHER gang
2010-05-21 18:23:54 Tibos: boredom in WL
2010-05-21 18:24:03 Angel: we don't want gang alliances
2010-05-21 18:24:05 bcfcespley: it would be like engl;and and immigrants...
2010-05-21 18:24:05 Scott: WL is catered for 4 HQ's
2010-05-21 18:24:07 darp: Only you can prevent forest fires... and gang alliances.
2010-05-21 18:24:08 bcfcespley: over crowded!!
2010-05-21 18:24:09 Zorg: Again not even close to long term solutions, in 6 months you'll just want a 6th gang
2010-05-21 18:24:16 Angel: If everyone played 1v1v1v1 problem is fixed
2010-05-21 18:24:18 KevinMp: it would only be a temporary fix, and thats not something we can take away as easily as put it in the system
2010-05-21 18:24:22 darp: And actually 6 gangs makes more sense than 5. :P
2010-05-21 18:24:29 Zorg: exactly you're talking about a temporary fix
2010-05-21 18:24:41 Zorg: one that will create more long term problems than anything
2010-05-21 18:24:48 KevinMp: once we put it in the system, you cant take it out
2010-05-21 18:24:50 bcfcespley: maps would have to be re made, new systems, new clothing, new weapons, new everything
2010-05-21 18:24:53 bcfcespley: i just dont see it {XD}
2010-05-21 18:24:53 Angel: then they'd go for lucky number 7
2010-05-21 18:24:55 Scott: the imbalence of gangs for the first few months :/
2010-05-21 18:24:58 Angel: :P
2010-05-21 18:25:02 Scott: inbalance*
2010-05-21 18:25:03 KevinMp: people would want to remain in their 5th gang, and would get pissy if it was taken away
2010-05-21 18:25:05 Angel: 4 is enough
2010-05-21 18:25:16 Scott: people get pissy at anything
2010-05-21 18:25:17 Zorg: yes you're talking a ton of work for lots of people to make it happen all for a fix that will amuse people for a couple of months
2010-05-21 18:25:19 Zorg: and then be forgotten
2010-05-21 18:25:28 Scott: right
2010-05-21 18:25:34 Scott: ill say thats that idea wrapped up
2010-05-21 18:25:40 jonkers: Next idea?
2010-05-21 18:25:40 Tibos: hm....
2010-05-21 18:25:42 Scott: DF any last points ?
2010-05-21 18:25:52 Tibos: fair enough
2010-05-21 18:26:06 zerocomman: yea, 2 more suggestions
2010-05-21 18:26:11 HappyDays: :x
2010-05-21 18:26:15 Zorg: Every change I implement is intended to be a permanent fix for a problem.
2010-05-21 18:26:24 jonkers: shh HD you will get your turn
2010-05-21 18:26:26 Zorg: ...apart from Spectral Items, that was just something shinny to distract people.
2010-05-21 18:26:33 Scott: XD
2010-05-21 18:26:39 Zorg: Ok are DF done?
2010-05-21 18:26:43 jonkers: no
2010-05-21 18:26:50 Scott: then hurry up please
2010-05-21 18:26:56 Tibos: Zero?
2010-05-21 18:27:01 Pie: we're running 90 mins..
2010-05-21 18:27:02 Zorg: Due to the length of time this is taking you to type.
2010-05-21 18:27:05 Zorg: I'm gonna say no -_-
2010-05-21 18:27:08 Scott: TC
2010-05-21 18:27:11 Scott: any points
2010-05-21 18:27:20 Scott: ...
2010-05-21 18:27:27 Zorg: If it takes you that long to explain it, I'm not implementing it lol
2010-05-21 18:27:27 Pascal: one
2010-05-21 18:27:35 Pascal: im lagging :x
2010-05-21 18:27:39 Scott: great
2010-05-21 18:27:41 zerocomman: i was waiting for you to pay attention rather than continue blabbing
2010-05-21 18:27:42 Zorg: and I'm bored
2010-05-21 18:27:43 007Ben: ive got some too :P
2010-05-21 18:27:48 Ross: yeah can we have honours banners for gang loyalty?
2010-05-21 18:27:51 Pascal: say it ben
2010-05-21 18:27:52 Scott: No.
2010-05-21 18:27:54 Zorg: I was sitting here for 2 minutes waiting for you to type it dude
2010-05-21 18:28:10 zerocomman: ability to counteract radiance
2010-05-21 18:28:20 zerocomman: and lastly, staff favor should not benefit combat
2010-05-21 18:28:29 Angel: not your turn zero
2010-05-21 18:28:34 Zorg: this kind of stuff can go in the suggestions forum.
2010-05-21 18:28:35 Scott: +3 and more is really rare
2010-05-21 18:28:37 Zorg: :/
2010-05-21 18:28:43 007Ben: i really dont see the point of needing to ask permission to attack people with the new attack system. and with free hunting everyone would get to Av in no-time
2010-05-21 18:28:51 Scott: ask.. permission ?
2010-05-21 18:28:56 Zorg: ^- thats more like the stuff i wanted to hear
2010-05-21 18:29:00 Zorg: Not just suggestion forum stuff
2010-05-21 18:29:08 007Ben: like they need to acceot in the duel
2010-05-21 18:29:12 Scott: oh yeah
2010-05-21 18:29:19 Scott: sorry my mind is in the old system XD
2010-05-21 18:29:22 Zorg: The new combat system requires both sides of the fight to be active as it requires the selection of abilities....
2010-05-21 18:29:28 007Ben: like this is an assassin game, i dont need to ask to attack someone :P
2010-05-21 18:29:31 Food: Thanks ben, stealing my one thing I had in mind. *cries*
2010-05-21 18:29:39 SlickVic: for all levels?
2010-05-21 18:29:41 007Ben: lol
2010-05-21 18:30:14 Zorg: So the alternative would be you attack people who are ultimately defenceless...offline even... which is pointless.
2010-05-21 18:30:24 Scott: same system we have now..
2010-05-21 18:30:43 Scott: so really wed just be putting new GFx and coding but keeping the old system
2010-05-21 18:30:53 Food: Wondering, can't we have a duel system and a PVP system like we have now?
2010-05-21 18:30:54 Tibos: i think we really need to see it in action before we can criticize it
2010-05-21 18:30:56 Pascal: isn't that the same hunting will going to be then?
2010-05-21 18:30:56 SlickVic: so then hunting would be the main leveling system then?
2010-05-21 18:30:58 Zorg: Basically the alternative for someone online would be a pop up that interupted whatever you're doing saying... you're being attacked now you must go to the attack screen and defend yourself.
2010-05-21 18:31:25 Pie: can me and Scott have a duel on Dev?
2010-05-21 18:31:26 007Ben: or the dueling system could be a way to fight for c's?
2010-05-21 18:31:34 007Ben: like a bet
2010-05-21 18:31:36 zerocomman: the sooner you roll this out on dev, the sooner we can actually give you valid feedback
2010-05-21 18:31:42 Zorg: The duel page is a page that says "Insert duel page here." Pie -_-
2010-05-21 18:31:50 Ross: Lol
2010-05-21 18:31:53 Pie: i'm not gonna try, Zorg... xD
2010-05-21 18:31:56 Pie: last time i got stuck -.-
2010-05-21 18:32:02 jonkers: Do we have a time frame for this on dev?
2010-05-21 18:32:13 Zorg: The point is Hive fighting is pointless, the only time it is remotely even useful in the current system is sniping people as they run to heal.
2010-05-21 18:32:35 Zorg: Which will be totally irralevent in the new system anyway, because you'll have players heavily specialized as Medics out in warfare with you anyway.
2010-05-21 18:32:44 KevinMp: 8)
2010-05-21 18:32:52 Scott: ok
2010-05-21 18:32:59 Scott: done?
2010-05-21 18:33:07 KevinMp: nooo BoD's turn :x
2010-05-21 18:33:07 bcfcespley: will we be able to switch between them or once we pick we have to stay as that speciality?
2010-05-21 18:33:08 Zorg: The new system is still being designed.
2010-05-21 18:33:10 Food: I need high pvp, I will be lost without it. :(
2010-05-21 18:33:10 Pie: hive fighting also gains you exp
2010-05-21 18:33:11 Pie: xD
2010-05-21 18:33:14 Food: Hive*
2010-05-21 18:33:20 Zorg: But it will come together in a way that makes sense, and you'll understand why fighting in the hive would be pointless.
2010-05-21 18:33:24 KevinMp: bcfcespley i think so
2010-05-21 18:33:29 Food: Take my brother instead of PVP!
2010-05-21 18:33:38 Scott: We dont want him
2010-05-21 18:33:41 Food: Gah
2010-05-21 18:33:44 007Ben: {XD}
2010-05-21 18:33:48 Scott: Right
2010-05-21 18:33:50 darp: We didn't address DF's last two points.
2010-05-21 18:33:53 Zorg: I understand the desire to kill players who do not wish to fight you....
2010-05-21 18:33:59 KevinMp: :P
2010-05-21 18:34:02 Angel: It wasn't DF's turn
2010-05-21 18:34:05 Angel: :P
2010-05-21 18:34:05 Scott: the suggestion forum points ?
2010-05-21 18:34:05 Zorg: Thats why I play on PvP servers in every MMO I ever played.
2010-05-21 18:34:17 Zorg: But in Legacy death is meaningless anyway for the most part.
2010-05-21 18:34:21 zerocomman: our suggestions weren't worthy darp
2010-05-21 18:34:32 Scott: right
2010-05-21 18:34:38 zerocomman: mostly cuz i'm the one doing the suggesting :p
2010-05-21 18:34:41 Zorg: ability to counteract radiance... no
2010-05-21 18:34:56 Zorg: as radiance is not a combat advantage it just gives someone time to sit and do nothing
2010-05-21 18:34:58 bcfcespley: radiance removing items, yes :P
2010-05-21 18:35:00 Zorg: i see no need to counteract it
2010-05-21 18:35:02 jonkers: expo removing items ?
2010-05-21 18:35:09 Zorg: plus it kind of ruins the point of it
2010-05-21 18:35:17 jonkers: even though you were working on them a year ago?
2010-05-21 18:35:21 Scott: expo items are in the tunnel atm
2010-05-21 18:35:27 Scott: havnt started planning for them
2010-05-21 18:35:29 Zorg: staff favor effecting combat... kind of agree, but it will have very little effect in the new combat system anyway
2010-05-21 18:35:41 Food: We were suppose to get exposure removing items as per last LegCon, Someone dropped the ball. *Blames Scott*
2010-05-21 18:35:42 Zorg: I'm waiting for bcfc to draw them for me.
2010-05-21 18:35:44 zerocomman: so no harm getting rid of these benefits in the meantime
2010-05-21 18:35:45 Risque: Expo removing items were discussed at the last LegCon :/
2010-05-21 18:35:49 bcfcespley: you what
2010-05-21 18:35:54 bcfcespley: i drew you one ages ago lol
2010-05-21 18:35:59 Zorg: I asked you like 5 months ago dude, you never sent them!
2010-05-21 18:36:03 bcfcespley: yes i did"
2010-05-21 18:36:05 Scott: You two
2010-05-21 18:36:07 Scott: handbags away
2010-05-21 18:36:09 bcfcespley: it was a pill half silver
2010-05-21 18:36:10 Zorg: Never arrived at my end
2010-05-21 18:36:13 jonkers: I would get fae to :P
2010-05-21 18:36:13 Ross: the count attack to radiance is waiting 1 minute
2010-05-21 18:36:13 Scott: SHUT UP
2010-05-21 18:36:14 Ross: {XD}
2010-05-21 18:36:16 Tibos: send them again tonight and add them tomorrow
2010-05-21 18:36:19 Tibos: everyone is happy
2010-05-21 18:36:20 Zorg: Who did you sent it to? cause it wasn't me?
2010-05-21 18:36:26 Zorg: *send
2010-05-21 18:36:28 bcfcespley: it was and you even commented on it lol
2010-05-21 18:36:36 bcfcespley: id re send it but my old laptop blew up {XD}
2010-05-21 18:36:41 Scott: Dont drop it then
2010-05-21 18:36:43 Tibos: and get Legacy Affairs to see who's fault it is
2010-05-21 18:36:43 Pascal: wasteland rewards for gang members instead of just a trophy, based on their total wasteland points?
2010-05-21 18:36:43 Scott: doofus
2010-05-21 18:36:45 Zorg: redraw it
2010-05-21 18:36:56 darp: Hahaha
2010-05-21 18:36:57 bcfcespley: lol
2010-05-21 18:36:58 Scott: WL rewards ...
2010-05-21 18:36:59 bcfcespley: nice 2010-05-21 18:37:06 Zorg: Discussed when WL was introduced, declined.
2010-05-21 18:37:11 KevinMp: is this still "DF's Ideas" -_-
2010-05-21 18:37:18 jonkers: yes
2010-05-21 18:37:28 Pie: i thought this was TC
2010-05-21 18:37:32 Tibos: we are done i think
2010-05-21 18:37:33 Food: {xd}
2010-05-21 18:37:33 Zorg: No just zero was throwing his toys out of the pram cause I didn't answer him
2010-05-21 18:37:37 Scott: Her*
2010-05-21 18:37:43 jonkers: Zero is a she darp :)
2010-05-21 18:37:48 jonkers: darp
2010-05-21 18:37:52 jonkers: zorg
2010-05-21 18:37:53 Pie: everybody is a guy in here.. pssh
2010-05-21 18:37:53 Zorg: o.O
2010-05-21 18:37:54 zerocomman: i'm a she zorg
2010-05-21 18:38:00 darp: I am aware.
2010-05-21 18:38:04 Scott: Anyway
2010-05-21 18:38:07 Scott: BoD
2010-05-21 18:38:10 Scott: any points
2010-05-21 18:38:11 darp: Girls have innies.
2010-05-21 18:38:18 KevinMp: yes! someone brought something up to me
2010-05-21 18:38:22 Pascal: next
2010-05-21 18:38:22 Scott: Great.
2010-05-21 18:38:30 Scott: XD
2010-05-21 18:38:30 KevinMp: this player says he dropped a bunch of credits into hunting
2010-05-21 18:38:30 Scott: would you like to tell us what
2010-05-21 18:38:35 Pascal: gang
2010-05-21 18:38:37 Scott: oh god
2010-05-21 18:38:44 KevinMp: the new updates mean people will get avatar for free?
2010-05-21 18:38:48 Scott: is this going to be a bug report int he form of a question
2010-05-21 18:38:49 Zorg: cool story, tell it again
2010-05-21 18:38:50 KevinMp: would this person get this money back?
2010-05-21 18:38:56 Pie: lol
2010-05-21 18:39:01 Pascal: no tc is done
2010-05-21 18:39:02 Pascal: XD
2010-05-21 18:39:16 Zorg: yeah I'm going to refund 4 years of hunting, tell him to expect a bajillion credits in the mail shortly
2010-05-21 18:39:23 Scott: XD
2010-05-21 18:39:24 bcfcespley: {XD}
2010-05-21 18:39:24 Risque: rofl
2010-05-21 18:39:25 KevinMp: -_- thank you zorg lmao
2010-05-21 18:39:27 Tibos: {xd}
2010-05-21 18:39:32 jonkers: woop
2010-05-21 18:39:33 KevinMp: so hunting will cost money in the new system then?
2010-05-21 18:39:34 Zorg: There are people who leveled before hunting existed
2010-05-21 18:39:39 Zorg: there are people who leveled after it was added
2010-05-21 18:39:47 Scott: ok
2010-05-21 18:39:47 Zorg: There are people who leveled before gangs existed so could attack anyone
2010-05-21 18:39:55 Zorg: during midnight revives... the game changes... leveling changes
2010-05-21 18:40:01 Zorg: It is not my intention to make anything easier or cheaper
2010-05-21 18:40:09 Zorg: and I will make the changes needed to balance it to the best of my ability
2010-05-21 18:40:24 KevinMp: so hunting, if its still in the game, will continue to cost money?
2010-05-21 18:40:28 Scott: this is going to be a long blog
2010-05-21 18:40:29 Zorg: I like the current amount of time it takes to get to Avatar and have no intention of decreasing it
2010-05-21 18:40:36 Scott: kevinmp
2010-05-21 18:40:36 Ross: to be fair zorg
2010-05-21 18:40:42 Scott: im sure that has been answered ina blog
2010-05-21 18:40:46 Zorg: Hunting will be free, costs will be introduced in different areas
2010-05-21 18:40:48 Ross: you mae things easier when you allowed the transfers of credits and items legally....
2010-05-21 18:40:53 Ross: made*
2010-05-21 18:40:54 KevinMp: allright im all good then
2010-05-21 18:40:58 darp: The ones I am aware of, LA and COE, were addressed.
2010-05-21 18:41:10 Zorg: Hunting is just taking the place of player search > attack player
2010-05-21 18:41:43 Zorg: as that system sucks
2010-05-21 18:41:48 Scott: ok
2010-05-21 18:41:54 Scott: anymore points BoD?
2010-05-21 18:41:59 Angel: since this is dragging on can i make my point as it is relevant to this particular topic?
2010-05-21 18:42:01 Angel: :P
2010-05-21 18:42:05 Scott: go for it
2010-05-21 18:42:08 Food: How dare you insult PVP *Votes to kill Zorg in his sleep*
2010-05-21 18:42:13 Angel: So with the new dual system, how will it work within the wl, do you enter a square and wait for someone to 'accept' Killing somebody offline isn't stupid when they are taking your squares now is it? so why should they get rewarded being offline, it should
2010-05-21 18:42:25 Angel: be like an off guard type thing, a premptive strike of sorts
2010-05-21 18:42:27 Ross: ...
2010-05-21 18:42:34 Tibos: duels are hive only
2010-05-21 18:42:37 Ross: why on earth would it apply to the WL?
2010-05-21 18:42:39 Pie: ...
2010-05-21 18:42:41 Ross: think before you type -_-
2010-05-21 18:42:42 Zorg: Ok other people are answering this one for me :D
2010-05-21 18:42:46 jonkers: isnt zorg playing with roaming guards?
2010-05-21 18:42:50 Scott: yeah
2010-05-21 18:42:53 Angel: the game is changing, but what about wl?
2010-05-21 18:42:54 Pie: you don't have to accept to fight in the wl
2010-05-21 18:42:57 Scott: we're calling them evil little buggers
2010-05-21 18:43:01 Pie: you just.. fight..
2010-05-21 18:43:04 Pie: and if they're not there
2010-05-21 18:43:07 Pie: you get no resistance
2010-05-21 18:43:08 Angel: is it remaining the same?
2010-05-21 18:43:09 Pascal: you die
2010-05-21 18:43:14 jonkers: Care to explain more about these guards?
2010-05-21 18:43:16 Zorg: WF is being turned in to one giant AJAX / Javascript display that will incorporate both combat and the current warfare stuff.... you'll never changes pages to fight multiple people in your location / use abilities / etc
2010-05-21 18:43:17 KevinMp: so afk = death :O
2010-05-21 18:43:19 Scott: WF is being redone next year i would imagine
2010-05-21 18:43:22 SlickVic: afk will be suicide
2010-05-21 18:43:29 SlickVic: I like it
2010-05-21 18:43:34 KevinMp: :P
2010-05-21 18:43:39 Zorg: Yeah the idea of guards
2010-05-21 18:43:59 Zorg: Is to make them like players only with special unique abilities that wander around
2010-05-21 18:44:14 Zorg: So your HQ may be patrolled by a big boss style NPC with cool abilities that takes a few people to kill
2010-05-21 18:44:24 Zorg: Your outer borders may be patrolled by simpler NPCs that patrol in packs
2010-05-21 18:44:24 KevinMp: so will non avs b able to kill afk avatars then? :O
2010-05-21 18:44:27 Scott: Goes well with a radar ability
2010-05-21 18:44:28 Scott: :P
2010-05-21 18:44:33 jonkers: are you planning changes to the maps?
2010-05-21 18:44:35 Scott: anyone afk
2010-05-21 18:44:38 Zorg: And enemy territory may even be entered by Scout NPCs that infilitrate and attack unsuspecting players.
2010-05-21 18:44:41 Scott: will be pretty much jumped by guards
2010-05-21 18:44:44 Scott: if players dont get them
2010-05-21 18:44:46 Zorg: Thats the grand scope, how it will actually turn out is unknown right now
2010-05-21 18:44:59 Scott: right
2010-05-21 18:45:01 Zorg: No changed planned to the maps right now
2010-05-21 18:45:04 Zorg: *changes
2010-05-21 18:45:08 Angel: but what if the person was not afk, just a slower speed internet?
2010-05-21 18:45:18 Zorg: Depends how slow :/
2010-05-21 18:45:20 Scott: then we ban dialup XD
2010-05-21 18:45:42 Angel: it would give an unfair advantage if self defense is gone
2010-05-21 18:45:48 Tibos: once the page is loaded (one page!!!), the other transfers should be extra small
2010-05-21 18:45:54 Zorg: The combat system will be automated... kind of, you'll attack every 5 seconds or so and pick abilities in advance. So it's not like click as fast as you can.
2010-05-21 18:46:03 bcfcespley: ahh
2010-05-21 18:46:12 Angel: that makes more sense
2010-05-21 18:46:17 Angel: ok i'm done
2010-05-21 18:46:20 Scott: sounds like final fantasy :P
2010-05-21 18:46:29 darp: I'm done.
2010-05-21 18:46:29 Angel: yeah :P
2010-05-21 18:46:32 Scott: ok
2010-05-21 18:46:33 Scott: OC
2010-05-21 18:46:36 bcfcespley: i prefer killing people in 2 seconds {XD}
2010-05-21 18:46:37 Scott: last points please
2010-05-21 18:46:37 Pascal: souds like pokemon
2010-05-21 18:46:38 Food: I'll start.
2010-05-21 18:46:39 Zorg: http://dev.legacy-game.net/sandbox/test.htm
2010-05-21 18:46:44 Zorg: That's what the blue bar is on that
2010-05-21 18:46:50 Food: First off, Bcfc..rank 10 items now please.
2010-05-21 18:46:51 Pascal: *sounds
2010-05-21 18:46:53 KevinMp: :O
2010-05-21 18:46:54 Zorg: The timer that will auto-attack for you... or use abilities you decide on in advance
2010-05-21 18:47:04 Food: Seond, we should consider drops from roaming guards in WL!
2010-05-21 18:47:23 Zorg: So you click the head shot ability and it is executed at the end of that bar instead of your auto-attack
2010-05-21 18:47:39 Angel: that works :)
2010-05-21 18:47:42 Zorg: Yes they would have drops, especially each gangs "boss npc" that patrols their HQ
2010-05-21 18:48:00 Food: Alright, HD has a few things to adress, HD please.
2010-05-21 18:48:07 Scott: HAPPYDAYS
2010-05-21 18:48:15 HappyDays: FUNDING
2010-05-21 18:48:18 HappyDays: ban it
2010-05-21 18:48:37 Zorg: Only well trained Rogues will be anywhere near enemy HQs alone if their boss NPC is alive.
2010-05-21 18:48:44 Scott: by funding
2010-05-21 18:48:49 Scott: do you mean same ip transfers?
2010-05-21 18:48:58 Scott: people quitting and leaving credits?
2010-05-21 18:49:01 Zorg: I think he means departure gifts?
2010-05-21 18:49:04 HappyDays: As in players getting large tranfers of credits
2010-05-21 18:49:10 Scott: but what category
2010-05-21 18:49:12 Zorg: Ok guess not
2010-05-21 18:49:14 Scott: we can ban everything :s
2010-05-21 18:49:17 Scott: cant*
2010-05-21 18:49:21 HappyDays: Or pricy items
2010-05-21 18:49:28 HappyDays: For examply a free rail gun
2010-05-21 18:49:29 Rotten: like medo
2010-05-21 18:49:30 jonkers: side question zorg will a gang be able to tell if another gangs boss NPC is alive/dead?
2010-05-21 18:49:35 HappyDays: And going away gifts
2010-05-21 18:49:41 Risque: What do you consider a large transfer of credits?
2010-05-21 18:49:44 HappyDays: Also large insane loans
2010-05-21 18:49:46 Scott: problem with away girfts is
2010-05-21 18:49:50 Scott: you can say yes ban them
2010-05-21 18:49:50 Food: I think we should save this for a good CoE debate, if we discuss funding here all hell will break loose.
2010-05-21 18:49:54 Zorg: With glance or wandering around cloaked jonkers
2010-05-21 18:49:55 Scott: getting those items is another story
2010-05-21 18:49:55 HappyDays: that would take years to pay off should be banned
2010-05-21 18:50:08 Scott: Right
2010-05-21 18:50:14 Zorg: Although boss npcs may periodically scan their area >:)
2010-05-21 18:50:22 Risque: Does OC have the floor or not? O.o
2010-05-21 18:50:27 HappyDays: ;/
2010-05-21 18:50:27 jonkers: no
2010-05-21 18:50:36 bcfcespley: i know yeah
2010-05-21 18:50:36 Scott: We're on transfers atm
2010-05-21 18:50:42 Scott: its hard to say
2010-05-21 18:50:43 Zorg: Yeah HappyDays extreme left wing views can be discussed in the Elders forum
2010-05-21 18:50:54 HappyDays: lol thanks zorg {xd}
2010-05-21 18:50:56 Scott: thats best
2010-05-21 18:50:58 HappyDays: but you love me ;p
2010-05-21 18:50:59 Scott: btw zorg
2010-05-21 18:51:03 Tibos: when can we submit the elder decision to you?
2010-05-21 18:51:03 Zorg: Personally I think all your ideas are insane. >.<
2010-05-21 18:51:08 Scott: when elders is redone can we have a clean forum?
2010-05-21 18:51:09 HappyDays: my second point coding gang banks
2010-05-21 18:51:12 bcfcespley: When will storage be user friendly?!?!
2010-05-21 18:51:22 HappyDays: and setting maz amount of spending monthly
2010-05-21 18:51:23 Scott: this is legacy bcfc :P
2010-05-21 18:51:27 HappyDays: *max
2010-05-21 18:51:28 Zorg: It is user friendly to people who dont have a million items.
2010-05-21 18:51:32 HappyDays: to create strategy
2010-05-21 18:51:35 Scott: lol
2010-05-21 18:51:44 Scott: 23:50:53 [Scott] when elders is redone can we have a clean forum?
2010-05-21 18:51:45 HappyDays: that way you have to budget
2010-05-21 18:51:55 Ross: zorg honours banner for gang loyalty? :D
2010-05-21 18:51:58 Scott: Ross
2010-05-21 18:51:59 Zorg: sure
2010-05-21 18:52:01 HappyDays: and everything is more transparent
2010-05-21 18:52:02 bcfcespley: so you created storage intending people to add like 6 items?
2010-05-21 18:52:03 Scott: No
2010-05-21 18:52:06 Zorg: to clean forum not banner lol
2010-05-21 18:52:12 Scott: Ok
2010-05-21 18:52:21 Scott: Any last points or can i wrap up ?
2010-05-21 18:52:23 Zorg: I'll fix it bcfc, it's just not high on my list of stuff to do
2010-05-21 18:52:24 zerocomman: bcfc you are the outlier
2010-05-21 18:52:34 Zorg: If you want to move an item 100 places to the left just message me and I'll do it for you lol
2010-05-21 18:52:34 Food: Risque, anything to add?
2010-05-21 18:52:43 bcfcespley: lol {XD}
2010-05-21 18:52:47 Risque: We didn't get an answer on the rank 10 items
2010-05-21 18:52:49 bcfcespley: yeah 360 clicks for 3 items -_-
2010-05-21 18:52:51 Scott: well
2010-05-21 18:52:53 Scott: right now
2010-05-21 18:52:58 Scott: bcfc i hae a question
2010-05-21 18:53:05 Scott: why does one gang have a wf trophie
2010-05-21 18:53:08 Scott: and no others do :O
2010-05-21 18:53:15 Food: Yeah, WHY bcfc.
2010-05-21 18:53:17 Zorg: yeah i dont get that accessory item
2010-05-21 18:53:18 Tibos: DF > others? {xd}
2010-05-21 18:53:19 Food: Hater
2010-05-21 18:53:23 bcfcespley: no
2010-05-21 18:53:28 Scott: I want to remove it :P
2010-05-21 18:53:34 bcfcespley: its because i felt like DF deserved it...
2010-05-21 18:53:40 Tibos: <3
2010-05-21 18:53:40 Zorg: If you touch anything in graphics Scott I'll slap you :P
2010-05-21 18:53:40 bcfcespley: and to prove im not biased :P
2010-05-21 18:53:40 Scott: eh
2010-05-21 18:53:51 Scott: didnt say anything about your design, old man
2010-05-21 18:54:03 bcfcespley: if TC win WL like 3 or 4 times, ill add it for them
2010-05-21 18:54:04 Zorg: I gave graphics control to Lucas and was like... there now if you ever touch any of it I'll kill you :D
2010-05-21 18:54:04 KevinMp: :O burn! xD
2010-05-21 18:54:13 Scott: XD
2010-05-21 18:54:21 Scott: I use it for uploading staff designs tbh
2010-05-21 18:54:21 bcfcespley: *goes and deleted EVERYTHING*
2010-05-21 18:54:24 Food: Rank 10 items?
2010-05-21 18:54:35 Scott: im sure zorg would go bitchtastic on your ass and account
2010-05-21 18:54:39 Zorg: anyway enough rambling
2010-05-21 18:54:44 Zorg: OC questions
2010-05-21 18:54:47 bcfcespley: Rank 10's..
2010-05-21 18:54:53 Scott: bcfc can answer this
2010-05-21 18:55:03 bcfcespley: who got back to me? {XD}
2010-05-21 18:55:03 Scott: mr. graphics admin.
2010-05-21 18:55:05 bcfcespley: i know DF did...
2010-05-21 18:55:19 Scott: bcfc
2010-05-21 18:55:23 Scott: relaunch in main
2010-05-21 18:55:26 Angel: you could make more character designs for specific gang roles
2010-05-21 18:55:27 Scott: best option :)
2010-05-21 18:55:38 bcfcespley: i prefer making items atm to be honest =]
2010-05-21 18:55:40 Food: We've been waiting for rank 10 and 18 items for a long time, just curious on how these are coming?
2010-05-21 18:55:46 Angel: War Advisor could have a specific rank 14 look only available to them
2010-05-21 18:55:48 Scott: well
2010-05-21 18:55:50 bcfcespley: oh yeah rank 18's too
2010-05-21 18:55:54 KevinMp: :O zorg i have a quick question to ask before we go. it can wait though
2010-05-21 18:56:04 Scott: shoot it now kevin before i wrap up
2010-05-21 18:56:10 Scott: ...sounds oddly wrong
2010-05-21 18:56:14 Tibos: i don't see how rank 10 items can be a good idea....
2010-05-21 18:56:19 KevinMp: back to the boss npcs. who gets the drop if multiple people attack it?
2010-05-21 18:56:30 Tibos: it would only support mass favoring so the gang can benefit from them
2010-05-21 18:56:30 Zorg: no idea
2010-05-21 18:56:36 Angel: so that people of leadership look like leadership if they choose to be
2010-05-21 18:56:36 Food: I have another thing to add if I may.
2010-05-21 18:56:40 Risque: Stop beating around the bush on the rank 10/18 items. We still dont' have an answer O.o
2010-05-21 18:56:41 KevinMp: still in development then? :O
2010-05-21 18:56:42 Zorg: that's all just concept ideas, it is in no way designed yet
2010-05-21 18:56:48 KevinMp: ok gotcha ty
2010-05-21 18:56:51 Scott: im guessing we have a wow vote system :P
2010-05-21 18:56:53 Scott: right
2010-05-21 18:57:01 bcfcespley: the answer is, i cant add one gangs, so until all 4 get back to me, no one gets anything :/
2010-05-21 18:57:05 Scott: I'll wrap this up :D
2010-05-21 18:57:40 Scott: Thank you for attending another successfull LegCon, I'd liek to thank gangs for being able to get the reps in a short amount of time and for staff help with this session.
2010-05-21 18:57:50 Zorg: Ok I'll get some changes done tomorrow, to Elders and such
2010-05-21 18:57:55 Scott: I'll post the review tomorrow but i'll get to work on elders tonight
2010-05-21 18:57:59 Pie: it's tomorrow in 2 minutes.
2010-05-21 18:58:07 HappyDays: I am going to make some threads in elders
2010-05-21 18:58:07 Scott: XD anyway
2010-05-21 18:58:09 Pie: be quick, Scott
2010-05-21 18:58:10 HappyDays: strolls off
2010-05-21 18:58:12 HappyDays: :p
2010-05-21 18:58:13 KevinMp: ok im out then. have a good one
2010-05-21 18:58:20 Scott: Zorg will remove your green status soon
2010-05-21 18:58:22 KevinMp: gl with all the new updates zorgy :O
2010-05-21 18:58:25 Zorg: Special thanks to Lucas for attending -_-
2010-05-21 18:58:27 Scott: Thank you again!
2010-05-21 18:58:30 Food: I still have one point, Gang chat continues to be an Issue.
2010-05-21 18:58:31 bcfcespley: {XD}
2010-05-21 18:58:33 Pie: Thanks Lucas
2010-05-21 18:58:34 HappyDays: sips beer
2010-05-21 18:58:35 Scott: LegCon OVER!
Finish: 2010-05-21 18:58:35

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{Protected}}
-<span class="boxtitle">LegCon</span><br>
+<span class="boxtitle">LegCon #2</span><br>
 Hosted by: [[Scott]], [[Zorg]]<br>
 Date: 21st May 2010<br>
-With: N/A<br>
+With: [[Scott]], [[Zorg]], [[User:Pie|Pie]], [[User:bouchie|bouchie]] and [[User:Lucas|Lucas]].<br>
-[[Outcasts|OC Reps]]: Food, Risque, Happydays and Bcfcespley<br>
+[[Outcasts|OC Reps]]: Food, Risque, SlickVic and Bcfcespley.<br>
-[[Blade of Dawn|BoD Reps]]: Darp, Korin, Angel and KevinMP<br>
+[[Blade of Dawn|BoD Reps]]: Darp, Korin, Angel and KevinMP.<br>
-[[The Chapter|TC Reps]]: Bernard721, Simvader, Tzirn, and Spanky <br>
+[[The Chapter|TC Reps]]: Bernard721, Pascal, 007Ben, and Spanky. <br>
-[[Dark Flame|DF Reps]]: Tibos, Jonkers<br>
+[[Dark Flame|DF Reps]]: Tibos, Jonkers, Rotten and Zerocomman.<br>
-[[Chamber of Elders|Elder Reps]]: Ross, Tibos, Food and Darp
+[[Chamber of Elders|Elder Reps]]: Ross, Tibos, Food and Darp.
 ----
 {| class="graybox" width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="8" |
 | width="100%" class="graybox" |
-<span class="boxtitle">Start: N/A</span><br>
+<span class="boxtitle">Start:2010-05-21 17:00:15</span><br>
+-05-21 17:00:15  Zorg: Ok chat is going moderated<br>
-<span class="boxtitle">Finish: N/A</span><br>
+-05-21 17:00:17  Scott: :P<br>
+-05-21 17:00:17  turdus: long left to hommie bullspit<br>
+-05-21 17:00:19  Seraphim: noooo<br>
+-05-21 17:00:22  Seraphim: not moderation<br>
+-05-21 17:00:22  Altiar: noooo<br>
+-05-21 17:00:25  Bernard721: Muteeeeedd. :D<br>
+-05-21 17:00:26  Scott: Right<br>
+-05-21 17:00:30  Zorg: Ok who isn't a rep who needs to be?<br>
+-05-21 17:00:35  Food: Slickvic.<br>
+-05-21 17:00:36  bcfcespley: me<br>
+-05-21 17:00:37  Bernard721: 007Ben for TC.<br>
+-05-21 17:00:39  Pascal: oo7ben<br>
+-05-21 17:00:43  KevinMp: bcf u r<br>
+-05-21 17:00:45  KevinMp: ur green<br>
+-05-21 17:00:46  bcfcespley: oh lol<br>
+-05-21 17:00:50  bcfcespley: it told me i couldnt speak<br>
+-05-21 17:00:50  Zorg: 007ben and slickvic, anyone else?<br>
+-05-21 17:01:07  Korin: hmm<br>
+-05-21 17:01:25  Zorg: slickvic and 007ben relogin to chat please<br>
+-05-21 17:01:45  KevinMp: thar ya go ;)<br>
+-05-21 17:01:57  Zorg: ok everyone got all their reps?<br>
+-05-21 17:02:02  Pascal: yup<br>
+-05-21 17:02:03  Rotten: Yes sir<br>
+-05-21 17:02:05  Scott: hmm<br>
+-05-21 17:02:07  Ross: ya<br>
+-05-21 17:02:09  Risque: Yes<br>
+-05-21 17:02:11  KevinMp: angel is afk :/<br>
+-05-21 17:02:12  Bernard721: TC, drop me a PM if you have any point, and I'll try and add it to the conversation<br>
+-05-21 17:02:14  Scott: Right <br>
+-05-21 17:02:21  Tibos: same here, DF :P<br>
+-05-21 17:02:25  Scott: Can reps like.. be quiet for a few seconds<br>
+-05-21 17:02:26  Zorg: Ok set your chat to your gang color, if you're an elder use your gang color, if you're a rogue use white<br>
+-05-21 17:02:29  KevinMp: we have 2 backups. one is offline, and 1 isnt responding<br>
+-05-21 17:02:38  Scott: Zorg Rogue rep is Pie :P<br>
+-05-21 17:02:46  Zorg: ....?<br>
+-05-21 17:02:48  bcfcespley: im colourblind XD<br>
+-05-21 17:02:50  Zorg: Pie is a staff rep -_-<br>
+-05-21 17:02:55  Ross: Lol<br>
+-05-21 17:03:00  Angel: Leave me alone kevin -_-<br>
+-05-21 17:03:01  Bernard721: Organizational fail<br>
+-05-21 17:03:02  Tibos: we fail at rogue reps then<br>
+-05-21 17:03:03  Scott: He's also.. the rogue rep :D<br>
+-05-21 17:03:13  Zorg: whatever<br>
+-05-21 17:03:20  KevinMp: nvm were all good :d<br>
+-05-21 17:03:27  Scott: Right <br>
+-05-21 17:03:35  Scott: Reps be quiet for a few mins :P<br>
+-05-21 17:03:38  Bernard721: shoot dropped some bud in my keyboard<br>
+-05-21 17:03:42  KevinMp: WHAT!?!?!<br>
+-05-21 17:03:45  Zorg: Nobody cares.<br>
+-05-21 17:03:45  KevinMp: lol allright<br>
+-05-21 17:03:46  Scott: by that i mean shut up<br>
+-05-21 17:03:50  Ross: Lmao<br>
+-05-21 17:03:57  bcfcespley: can we just start<br>
+-05-21 17:04:00  Zorg: Ok will be removing rep status from those who speak...<br>
+-05-21 17:04:10  Zorg: If that's not clear enough by the instructions given twice already.<br>
+-05-21 17:04:31  Scott: Right, Welcome to the second LegCon. This second meeting will be hosted by Lucas, myself and Zorg. <br>
+-05-21 17:04:50  Scott: The room is set to moderated so if you need to make a point PM your chosen gang reps by double clciking their names.<br>
+-05-21 17:05:04  Scott: Can all gang reps please use your gang colours to avoid confusion <br>
+-05-21 17:05:26  Scott: All input will be noted down and tomorrow the logs/review of the meeting will be posted. <br>
+-05-21 17:05:32  Scott: Take it away Zorg :P<br>
+-05-21 17:05:51  Zorg: Ok this will be a structured chat, not a free-for-all... so if it isn't constructive I dont want to hear it.<br>
+-05-21 17:06:15  Zorg: How many elder reps do we have here?<br>
+-05-21 17:06:20  Food: All 4.<br>
+-05-21 17:06:23  Ross: 4<br>
+-05-21 17:06:29  Zorg: hmm ok<br>
+-05-21 17:06:30  KevinMp: BoD is... checking. hold on<br>
+-05-21 17:06:38  Zorg: Well first the Elders and their forum.<br>
+-05-21 17:06:41  KevinMp: we have 4. all good :D<br>
+-05-21 17:07:08  Zorg: The initial idea behind this was a place I could get feedback from people without getting opinions of new players or players of lesser importance.... if that's not too offensive :D<br>
+-05-21 17:07:15  Zorg: However it didn't get used much.<br>
+-05-21 17:07:19  Zorg: So I shut it down.<br>
+-05-21 17:07:32  Zorg: Then Deeg convinced me to re-open it with him running it.<br>
+-05-21 17:07:41  Zorg: Then Deeg left... he is kind of back now but still.<br>
+-05-21 17:07:50  Zorg: So it got abandoned for a while, then Scott was put in charge of it.<br>
+-05-21 17:07:59  Zorg: It now seems to just be there... with no real purpose.<br>
+-05-21 17:08:30  Zorg: So I want to know what people think about it, whether it should remain or be removed again.<br>
+-05-21 17:08:43  darp: At one point, the forum was put forth as a way to discuss suggestions and game updates and the like.<br>
+-05-21 17:08:46  KevinMp: we should keep it up :O<br>
+-05-21 17:08:57  bcfcespley: We should keep it, if you actually have some input zorg<br>
+-05-21 17:09:04  darp: If the estions forum is player driven, I think COE would do better with direct input from you, Zorg.<br>
+-05-21 17:09:12  jonkers: To me it sounds like the hall of gods but for older players<br>
+-05-21 17:09:18  Scott: Of course if kept open the members will be re-worked so every member has recently logged in  so we dont have our current stauts of inactive elders.<br>
+-05-21 17:09:19  darp: So that we aren't discussing things that you don't like or won't want implemented.<br>
+-05-21 17:09:21  Ross: First of all, I'd like to thank Scott and the staff, for arranging this semester<br>
+-05-21 17:09:23  Zorg: It was removed when the council forum was added with the gang system, as that was supposed to take its place.<br>
+-05-21 17:09:34  Risque: And what about the Senate forum? <br>
+-05-21 17:09:40  Bernard721: Well just like the Avatar and Senate, its apparently not being used.. but the occasional thread and discussion is worth it<br>
+-05-21 17:09:42  KevinMp: imo, all new updates should go through it<br>
+-05-21 17:09:47  Pie: The senate is junk.<br>
+-05-21 17:09:52  Risque: Then why have it?<br>
+-05-21 17:09:55  Ross: the main problem is activity.....i said that in the forum itself<br>
+-05-21 17:09:57  KevinMp: it lets veteran players discuss it, and ensure itll go right and such<br>
+-05-21 17:10:00  darp: Back to coe. <br>
+-05-21 17:10:00  Risque: Or combine Senate and COE<br>
+-05-21 17:10:03  Tibos: from my experience, the CoE is a bit more active (lol!) and mature about problems than the Senate<br>
+-05-21 17:10:06  Zorg: Yes the senate, hall of gods, elder forums are all similair sort of forums and none of them serve a purpose at present.<br>
+-05-21 17:10:12  Ross: we have way too make players on the elders list who have long lost interest<br>
+-05-21 17:10:17  Ross: thats the problem, imo<br>
+-05-21 17:10:19  bcfcespley: elders is as useful as suggestions at this point in time, without the person who can actually make things happening having no input, whats the point in doing anything in them? {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:10:42  Angel: Maybe the COE could be used as a filter forum for the public forums, since you ay you want to remove the 'leser importance' Elders could ensure that the critical point are addressed and heard, rather than suggestions being shut down because they are either<br>
+-05-21 17:10:53  Angel: improperly seen or jut spammed away<br>
+-05-21 17:11:06  Scott: Well at the current status of the game<br>
+-05-21 17:11:08  Zorg: so what place would the senate and avatar forums have?<br>
+-05-21 17:11:18  Scott: things cant really be added ebcause of the rebuild<br>
+-05-21 17:11:19  Food: It's simple, It requires Zorg's involvement to work..if not, it seems things are being said to deaf ears, also..we could use some active people, as mention.<br>
+-05-21 17:11:20  Ross: no, we just need to axe the players who barely log in more and get some of the more active players in<br>
+-05-21 17:11:24  Pie: I don't see why we have the senate<br>
+-05-21 17:11:29  darp: Senate should remain, as needed. Avatar forum... meh.<br>
+-05-21 17:11:34  Risque: Ross makes a good point<br>
+-05-21 17:11:36  Ross: Primie, Jack, Doddsyboi, Pink<br>
+-05-21 17:11:38  Ross: etc etc<br>
+-05-21 17:11:43  Bernard721: Maybe if a suggestion in the Suggestion forum sounds decent, it could be moved into another forum for old player discussion<br>
+-05-21 17:11:50  Tibos: Avatar forum = reward for avatars ; Senate = discussions that involve gangs<br>
+-05-21 17:12:08  bcfcespley: a reward?<br>
+-05-21 17:12:09  SlickVic: I don't see a lot of use for the Avatar forum<br>
+-05-21 17:12:10  bcfcespley: o.O<br>
+-05-21 17:12:14  Scott: So you guys would prefer a filter process ?<br>
+-05-21 17:12:21  Ross: urgh<br>
+-05-21 17:12:22  Ross: no<br>
+-05-21 17:12:24  Ross: in short<br>
+-05-21 17:12:26  Zorg: Like I said the Elder process became tiresome.... keeping track of a community and selecting those who are active to be Elders... removing inactive Elders. The idea of the Senate was the councils are player elected, it took away the need for staff...<br>
+-05-21 17:12:31  KevinMp: same. avatar forum is like.. for gloating<br>
+-05-21 17:12:31  Zorg: to add / remove Elders all the time.<br>
+-05-21 17:12:34  Angel: Senate forums are gang related, they should be used for global gang discussions... (if any), The the Avatar forum is for avatars, elling av equipment/ welcoming new avatars, it already has it's purpose, not many pay attention to it, so that's why it seems <br>
+-05-21 17:12:38  Angel: to be worthless<br>
+-05-21 17:12:52  Ross: Zorg, its not that difficult to maintain elders at the moment<br>
+-05-21 17:12:56  Ross: the list hasnt be revised in ages<br>
+-05-21 17:12:58  Zorg: Yes, sadly the gangs rarely have the need to talk with all the other gangs.<br>
+-05-21 17:13:07  Ross: been*<br>
+-05-21 17:13:09  zerocomman: avatar forum is a place where people female-dog about tyran drops. it's worthless<br>
+-05-21 17:13:14  KevinMp: we just need new ones. activeness is a requirement<br>
+-05-21 17:13:22  Bernard721: I just dont see why this is the starting topic point... what is is, taking up 5mb on the server space? Leave it be, and modify it later<br>
+-05-21 17:13:28  Scott: hmm<br>
+-05-21 17:13:46  Zorg: So if we keep it and I get involved, how do we decide who gets to be an Elder and who does not?<br>
+-05-21 17:13:50  darp: I think Zorg steering of COE or at least Zorg through Scott would be the most important starting point.<br>
+-05-21 17:13:55  bcfcespley: everyone zorg<br>
+-05-21 17:13:58  Ross: election from within?<br>
+-05-21 17:14:00  Scott: So would you guys like to see the senate removed, avatar forum removed CoE reset and all player revised with a bigger member list?<br>
+-05-21 17:14:07  darp: More work for Z and Staff, but it would spur some discussion.<br>
+-05-21 17:14:09  Bernard721: How about using the voting system thats never used....<br>
+-05-21 17:14:16  Tibos: election from within is the logical idea<br>
+-05-21 17:14:18  Food: I say we leave Scott in chargew of members list, but if you keep a eye on what's said there Zorg, that would work.<br>
+-05-21 17:14:19  Angel: so that isn't the issue here, the COE should use the filter method because it shows that the people who are selected are done so for a reason, they have more thought behind there points than new players as you said, and can develop less brain punching idea<br>
+-05-21 17:14:22  Pascal: let people apply and scan their history within the game?<br>
+-05-21 17:14:23  Angel: s so to speak :)<br>
+-05-21 17:14:23  Ross: if you use internal election, it gives the group another purpose?<br>
+-05-21 17:14:27  Zorg: The voting system is being removed soon. :/<br>
+-05-21 17:14:45  bcfcespley: what and biased options is coming in instead?<br>
+-05-21 17:14:55  Scott: Zorg, would it be a stupid idea to have like a gang voting system ?<br>
+-05-21 17:15:00  KevinMp: people who are invited to CoE should be players with little staff issues, a long period of play, and activeness<br>
+-05-21 17:15:06  Pie: why should the elders get to elect someone the staff don't care to listen to?<br>
+-05-21 17:15:11  Rotten: dont we have a gang voting system?<br>
+-05-21 17:15:16  Scott: like the kick player vote a player needs a certain number of yess's to get access ?<br>
+-05-21 17:15:21  jonkers: Would different gangs agree  on a vote?<br>
+-05-21 17:15:27  Zorg: I'm not adding voting systems on anything, this isn't a democracy... we can discuss things giving reasons not mindless pick from multiple choice questions.<br>
+-05-21 17:15:27  Food: Voting is based too muchj on popularity, I strongly believe that a member of Staff should be incharge of the members.<br>
+-05-21 17:15:38  KevinMp: should we have a certain amount of people from each gang in the Chambers?<br>
+-05-21 17:15:42  KevinMp: 4 per?<br>
+-05-21 17:15:46  Ross: it wouldnt be mindless pick from the elders...<br>
+-05-21 17:15:54  darp: PiCOE should be removed from gang considerations as much as possible.<br>
+-05-21 17:15:56  Pie: Kevin.. That would be the senate again..<br>
+-05-21 17:16:01  Tibos: CoE is strongly gang independent<br>
+-05-21 17:16:16  KevinMp: i mean.. just choosing the people that go in. <br>
+-05-21 17:16:20  darp: I've seen very little gangbias in the COE.<br>
+-05-21 17:16:23  KevinMp: So that way, every gang has a voice<br>
+-05-21 17:16:38  Pie: Again, that sounds very similat to the senate..<br>
+-05-21 17:16:39  Angel: Elders are decided from ranging factors, first would be account age, then game contributions, gang contribution, staff contribtions such a good ethics between players and staff, they should be selected by staff (Zorg and scott) with input from the current <br>
+-05-21 17:16:39  Zorg: Yes, Elders would be for discussing game changes... not changes that could effect some gangs differently to others.<br>
+-05-21 17:16:44  Pie: similar*<br>
+-05-21 17:16:50  bcfcespley: but what is every coe member decides to join the same gang<br>
+-05-21 17:16:52  Tibos: no, gang has nothing to do with CoE, people there are mature enough to think of the game and not of the gang they are in<br>
+-05-21 17:16:56  Angel: elders but the decision remains staff for a non-biased outlook<br>
+-05-21 17:17:07  Zorg: Clearly the current Elders list is out-dated.... Scott has been in charge of it for months, so clearly that's not working.<br>
+-05-21 17:17:16  bcfcespley: lol yeah scott<br>
+-05-21 17:17:18  bcfcespley: do your job :p<br>
+-05-21 17:17:23  Pie: seconded.<br>
+-05-21 17:17:24  Pie: xD<br>
+-05-21 17:17:25  KevinMp: So how are we gonna go about deciding new members?<br>
+-05-21 17:17:26  Ross: Lol<br>
+-05-21 17:17:31  Risque: Per Bigmick - Keep the active members already in there and add or remove the rest.<br>
+-05-21 17:17:33  KevinMp: staff pick?<br>
+-05-21 17:17:33  Scott: -_- <br>
+-05-21 17:17:37  Food: Was scott under the direction to fire inactive people?<br>
+-05-21 17:17:41  Scott: well if i went ahead and removed inactives<br>
+-05-21 17:17:52  Scott: it would be helpful if current elders did their joba nd suggested replacements<br>
+-05-21 17:18:01  Bernard721: What about a seperate staff position for the head of CoE<br>
+-05-21 17:18:01  Ross: ...<br>
+-05-21 17:18:05  Pie: why does there have to be replacements?<br>
+-05-21 17:18:19  Ross: theres a sticky on membership thats got about 59 votes<br>
+-05-21 17:18:21  darp: We could do better suggesting new members, and there is no need to remove inactives.<br>
+-05-21 17:18:22  Ross: posts*<br>
+-05-21 17:18:22  Zorg: That would be a very boring job.<br>
+-05-21 17:18:32  Pie: surely a small, active group is better than a larger, inactive one<br>
+-05-21 17:18:33  Scott: Some old posts, witht he players inactive<br>
+-05-21 17:18:39  KevinMp: Pie yes<br>
+-05-21 17:18:46  bcfcespley: exactly pie<br>
+-05-21 17:18:48  Scott: Right <br>
+-05-21 17:18:53  Ross: there has to be replacements because theres people on the list who have zero input on this game anymore<br>
+-05-21 17:18:57  darp: I don't see the difference.<br>
+-05-21 17:18:59  Angel: COE has been seen as eligible to be removed, making a staff position is not functional just further proves the point it has no place.<br>
+-05-21 17:19:01  Ross: they barely find the interest to log in regulary<br>
+-05-21 17:19:06  Pie: but why do they have to be replaced?<br>
+-05-21 17:19:09  Pie: why not just remove them?<br>
+-05-21 17:19:18  Ross: because then you'll have about 8 elders<br>
+-05-21 17:19:27  Ross: i'd be cool with that<br>
+-05-21 17:19:32  Pie: and select Elders when somebody proves good enough.. :D<br>
+-05-21 17:19:32  Ross: but its not my decision<br>
+-05-21 17:19:34  Ross: so...<br>
+-05-21 17:19:38  Scott: Right <br>
+-05-21 17:19:38  Ross: yes<br>
+-05-21 17:19:40  Pie: that's what we're here to discuss..<br>
+-05-21 17:19:40  Ross: that could work<br>
+-05-21 17:19:48  zerocomman: how many members does staff want in elders<br>
+-05-21 17:19:49  Scott: so should elder list be reset yes or no -_-<br>
+-05-21 17:19:55  KevinMp: yes<br>
+-05-21 17:20:00  Risque: You need to decide how many elders, as well<br>
+-05-21 17:20:01  Pie: reset? no<br>
+-05-21 17:20:03  KevinMp: it needs to be refreshed<br>
+-05-21 17:20:04  Bernard721: Well obviously Elders now are going to say no<br>
+-05-21 17:20:06  Pie: pruned, yes<br>
+-05-21 17:20:07  Tibos: trimmed and afterwards expanded<br>
+-05-21 17:20:09  Ross: reset?<br>
+-05-21 17:20:10  Angel: Maybe Selecting Elders could be the same as staff positions, it could be explained and applications sent to scott, which then gets discussed in the forum by the Elders currently, and a decision is reached?<br>
+-05-21 17:20:11  KevinMp: some of them can stay<br>
+-05-21 17:20:12  Ross: cut down<br>
+-05-21 17:20:12  Zorg: There was never a limit.<br>
+-05-21 17:20:13  Ross: :P<br>
+-05-21 17:20:27  Zorg: There were like 20 elders before it shutdown and the gang system went live, they became the starting gang councils.<br>
+-05-21 17:20:28  Tibos: Angel's idea souns nice<br>
+-05-21 17:20:31  Pascal: their should be a clear idea te be "good" enough though<br>
+-05-21 17:20:40  Risque: Bigmick - The original amount of elders was 16. Why change that.? <br>
+-05-21 17:20:41  Ross: that idea sucks<br>
+-05-21 17:20:49  Ross: cue levels 5 saying "KAN I B ELDAR"<br>
+-05-21 17:20:59  Scott: like your application<br>
+-05-21 17:21:01  Zorg: So you want it to remain an invite only elitist forum?<br>
+-05-21 17:21:02  Scott: hehe :P<br>
+-05-21 17:21:08  Ross: pretty much<br>
+-05-21 17:21:10  KevinMp: we should maybe put a year limit on who we accept?<br>
+-05-21 17:21:10  bcfcespley: yeah<br>
+-05-21 17:21:12  Tibos: yes<br>
+-05-21 17:21:15  jonkers: yes<br>
+-05-21 17:21:16  Pie: if it's not invite only, you may as well close it..<br>
+-05-21 17:21:16  Ross: that was the draw of the CoE to being wiht<br>
+-05-21 17:21:17  Food: Yes.<br>
+-05-21 17:21:17  Pascal: yeah<br>
+-05-21 17:21:18  Zorg: Ok<br>
+-05-21 17:21:21  Angel: obviously scott knows the difference between an aplicable elder and a level 5<br>
+-05-21 17:21:21  KevinMp: for example, u need to have been playing for at least 2 years or something<br>
+-05-21 17:21:28  Zorg: Do you want to allow applications or literally be like... wait until you get invited?<br>
+-05-21 17:21:36  Ross: the latter<br>
+-05-21 17:21:38  Pie: wait until you get contacted, i think<br>
+-05-21 17:21:40  Zorg: Obviously we would ignore low level newbie applications.<br>
+-05-21 17:21:41  KevinMp: yeah<br>
+-05-21 17:21:43  jonkers: latter<br>
+-05-21 17:21:43  Angel: You don't need to be a genius, Scott could easily filter out the 'lesser importance' :P<br>
+-05-21 17:21:47  Pie: with discussion inside the froum<br>
+-05-21 17:21:48  Pie: forum*<br>
+-05-21 17:22:09  Pascal: applications sound nice, maybe make a system that checks if you are eligeble for it?<br>
+-05-21 17:22:10  SlickVic: how were elders chosen initially?<br>
+-05-21 17:22:15  zerocomman: i agree with waiting for invites<br>
+-05-21 17:22:16  darp: Invite is fine, but I think membership is the lesser issue... what about the forum's function?<br>
+-05-21 17:22:17  Zorg: Ok that's decided, the Elder forum will be re-launched, the member list updated and we'll form a new group of Elders through which all updates will be explained and discussed.<br>
+-05-21 17:22:21  Ross: Zorg hand picked them<br>
+-05-21 17:22:23  Tibos: handpicked by  zorg, SlickVic<br>
+-05-21 17:22:24  darp: ok, fine.<br>
+-05-21 17:22:24  Ross: i think...?<br>
+-05-21 17:22:29  007Ben: an application would be good if it had a required rank to enter<br>
+-05-21 17:22:41  KevinMp: we cant base it on gang rank, can we?<br>
+-05-21 17:22:44  Zorg: They were hand picked by me, back when I was more community involved.<br>
+-05-21 17:22:45  zerocomman: haha no<br>
+-05-21 17:22:47  KevinMp: non-biased<br>
+-05-21 17:22:50  darp: COE removed from gang.<br>
+-05-21 17:22:55  Zorg: Ok the gang senate, should that just be removed?<br>
+-05-21 17:22:55  Food: Zorg picked them out of Gang's leadership when he relauched I think :O<br>
+-05-21 17:23:00  Food: Yes Zorg.<br>
+-05-21 17:23:02  Scott: Yes.<br>
+-05-21 17:23:03  Pie: yes<br>
+-05-21 17:23:08  Angel: agreed<br>
+-05-21 17:23:09  darp: Keep Senate.<br>
+-05-21 17:23:09  Zorg: and the avatar forum?<br>
+-05-21 17:23:10  Scott: At the moment i just see spam all the time <br>
+-05-21 17:23:11  Tibos: No... it does no harm<br>
+-05-21 17:23:14  darp: What's the harm?<br>
+-05-21 17:23:15  Ross: remove it<br>
+-05-21 17:23:16  zerocomman: kill avatar forum<br>
+-05-21 17:23:18  Scott: well darp<br>
+-05-21 17:23:18  Ross: useless forum<br>
+-05-21 17:23:22  Zorg: It's never had a constructive post in it though. :/<br>
+-05-21 17:23:23  Scott: im not being evil but<br>
+-05-21 17:23:23  007Ben: not base it on the rank, just need to be a certain rank to apply for it, so no noobs would apply<br>
+-05-21 17:23:24  darp: Oh, god. Tibos and I of one mind. <br>
+-05-21 17:23:30  Bernard721: Why is there a need to scrap them?<br>
+-05-21 17:23:32  Pie: Uh<br>
+-05-21 17:23:33  Scott: the main threads are just good luck int he next wf<br>
+-05-21 17:23:34  Food: There's no point in having 2 threads meant for the same thing./<br>
+-05-21 17:23:36  Bernard721: If theres one tthread a year, so be it<br>
+-05-21 17:23:37  Ross: we're at a stage now where we have more avatars than lower levels....whats the point?<br>
+-05-21 17:23:38  Pie: The senate currently has no active topics<br>
+-05-21 17:23:41  Pie: it's a waste<br>
+-05-21 17:23:43  Scott: so in total we have a forum that gets a good luck thread every 3 months<br>
+-05-21 17:23:43  Pascal: remove senate and keep avatar<br>
+-05-21 17:24:02  Pascal: avatar is getting used still, well not much but more than senate :P<br>
+-05-21 17:24:09  Scott: I'd say remove senate <br>
+-05-21 17:24:11  Ross: the avatar one is more useles<br>
+-05-21 17:24:15  Zorg: Ok I've been trying to make my presence in the suggestions forum a bit more known by actually posting my thoughts recently, I'll get more involved in the Elder forum and shutdown the Senate / Avatar forums.<br>
+-05-21 17:24:15  jonkers: A DF member has suggested that every 3 months elders have to re apply to be an elder.<br>
+-05-21 17:24:16  bcfcespley: remove suggestions<br>
+-05-21 17:24:23  darp: At least on paper, there's no use for having a forum for gang leaderships to meet? Yes, it is not being used, but removing is the better idea? :/<br>
+-05-21 17:24:26  Tibos: avatar forum is posted in daily, but mainly spam<br>
+-05-21 17:24:30  Scott: that way the current rank 16's have a better job at gang relations<br>
+-05-21 17:24:34  Zorg: Suggestions serves a purpose :/<br>
+-05-21 17:24:42  bcfcespley: what purpose lol?<br>
+-05-21 17:24:46  bcfcespley: dust collecting<br>
+-05-21 17:24:54  darp: Leave Suggestions alone. <br>
+-05-21 17:24:55  KevinMp: some of the ideas were taken<br>
+-05-21 17:24:56  zerocomman: no need for an avatar spam forum<br>
+-05-21 17:25:07  Angel: remove senate, why? because it is evident when being linked to communicate with other gangs, we don't want anything to do with it, if we wanted to dicusss any isues, that's what the rank 16's are for...<br>
+-05-21 17:25:14  Food: Suggestions is the same as CoE, It requires Zorg to really work..since he says yes or no to things.<br>
+-05-21 17:25:17  Rotten: Avatar Forum is one of our most useless forums, we all use it to complain about not getting tyran drops.<br>
+-05-21 17:25:22  darp: I really don't want Senate removed.<br>
+-05-21 17:25:23  Bernard721: Rank 16s are hardly used though...<br>
+-05-21 17:25:42  bcfcespley: why dont zorg add his rating system in his updates to the suggestions forum threads?<br>
+-05-21 17:25:42  Bernard721: People go straight to the people they're friendly with in a PM<br>
+-05-21 17:25:44  Pie: darp.. all of its threads are archived<br>
+-05-21 17:25:45  Scott: Well with senate beign removed rank 16's will have more to do<br>
+-05-21 17:25:49  Pie: nothing constructive gets posted there<br>
+-05-21 17:25:52  Risque: Senate hasn't had a post since April 5th so what's the point?<br>
+-05-21 17:25:52  Zorg: why though darp?<br>
+-05-21 17:26:06  Zorg: your personal dislike of change is not reason to keep something that has no purpose<br>
+-05-21 17:26:08  darp: Whether used or not, the avenue of communication is open.<br>
+-05-21 17:26:11  Ross: none of the gangs like each other....whats the point in trying to maintaina  forum where they can co-exist?<br>
+-05-21 17:26:12  Ross: {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:26:14  Scott: If i moved good suggestions to senate it will just turn into arguements <br>
+-05-21 17:26:14  Zorg: The whole point of the senate was to replace the elder forum and it never did<br>
+-05-21 17:26:24  Pie: The rank 16's job is to communicate..<br>
+-05-21 17:26:29  Zorg: an avenue that is never used in the years it has been open<br>
+-05-21 17:26:30  Pie: Use them<br>
+-05-21 17:26:44  Angel: the avenue of communication is within the rank 16', they are suppose to 'communicate'. Not everyone in leadership.<br>
+-05-21 17:26:56  jonkers: An idea from a DF member. In the senate forum a gang should be able to open a thread that only a selected gang could read. So If for example OC only want to talk to BOD that can.<br>
+-05-21 17:27:00  Bernard721: I have a feeling this LegCon is going to be a long one... I mean 30 minutes on forum use....<br>
+-05-21 17:27:02  darp: Sometimes I want to yell at 15 people directly, not through the r16s.<br>
+-05-21 17:27:08  Angel: The rank 16 is suppose to bring any discussion to the attention of council in the council forum, not the senate<br>
+-05-21 17:27:08  Pie: jonkers<br>
+-05-21 17:27:17  Zorg: Gang to gang forums aren't happening.<br>
+-05-21 17:27:17  Scott: jonkers that would be... stupid<br>
+-05-21 17:27:18  Angel: thus creating senate forum useless :P<br>
+-05-21 17:27:20  Pie: in response to that, again, that is why there are Rank 16<br>
+-05-21 17:27:28  Zorg: Ratings could be added to Suggestions but that would be a big job.<br>
+-05-21 17:27:29  Pie: And the post office..<br>
+-05-21 17:27:36  Scott: plus<br>
+-05-21 17:27:38  bcfcespley: just copy and paste the code lol {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:27:45  Scott: the problem with ratings is its jsut thumbs up or down<br>
+-05-21 17:27:50  jonkers: Its not my idea I am just passing on idea's<br>
+-05-21 17:27:52  Scott: we need to know WHY its good or bad <br>
+-05-21 17:27:56  Pie: i know<br>
+-05-21 17:27:56  Zorg: Like you copy and paste your graphics? :o<br>
+-05-21 17:27:58  Zorg: Zing!<br>
+-05-21 17:28:00  Pie: I was just responding to it<br>
+-05-21 17:28:03  bcfcespley: yeah<br>
+-05-21 17:28:08  bcfcespley: cus that made sense {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:28:12  Scott: its no use just saying thumbs down to a good suggestion<br>
+-05-21 17:28:16  Zorg: :D<br>
+-05-21 17:28:19  Scott: we need to know why you think its crap<br>
+-05-21 17:28:19  bcfcespley: :P<br>
+-05-21 17:28:20  Zorg: Ok next topic<br>
+-05-21 17:28:33  Ross: Ste got bullied then<br>
+-05-21 17:28:44  bcfcespley: how did i lol<br>
+-05-21 17:28:47  Zorg: Flame Forum, right now we're deleting stuff that may get us in to... legal trouble, soon the TOS will be re-written to prohibit such discussion. Apart from that the plan is to leave it.<br>
+-05-21 17:28:54  Zorg: Do you guys like it? hate it? etc<br>
+-05-21 17:28:55  Ross: wooo<br>
+-05-21 17:28:58  Ross: Go flame forum <br>
+-05-21 17:28:59  Bernard721: Love it.<br>
+-05-21 17:29:02  Tibos: i like it<br>
+-05-21 17:29:05  Bernard721: I know its childish.. but its great<br>
+-05-21 17:29:13  Tibos: but i would like an anti-spam rule on it<br>
+-05-21 17:29:14  KevinMp: its all trash, but its pretty much a spam forum<br>
+-05-21 17:29:17  darp: It's pretty inane, but meh... the purpose is sound.<br>
+-05-21 17:29:19  Pie: it doesn't seem o have moved any of the arguments off of Side Chat -.-<br>
+-05-21 17:29:23  007Ben: personally i like it, but most if the forums are just pointless :P<br>
+-05-21 17:29:24  Pie: if anything, i've had more tickets<br>
+-05-21 17:29:26  zerocomman: anti-spam would be much appreciated<br>
+-05-21 17:29:27  Food: It's not for me, I have little to no interest in it, but of course..for others it serves a purpose.<br>
+-05-21 17:29:28  Risque: Nothing will do that, Pie<br>
+-05-21 17:29:29  darp: It seems to be the new non-related forum, though, often.<br>
+-05-21 17:29:30  KevinMp: but imo, if it gets the game in trouble, kill it<br>
+-05-21 17:29:32  Zorg: In short the TOS re-write will prohibit pornographic content, illegal content and personal attacks aimed at individuals within the game.<br>
+-05-21 17:29:36  Rotten: I hate the Flame Forum<br>
+-05-21 17:29:43  Scott: Right now i get a mail a week asking me to take action on player abuse .. <br>
+-05-21 17:29:50  Pascal: yeah flame forum should get kept out of sidechat &gt;.&gt;<br>
+-05-21 17:29:54  Scott: i cant because if someone insults you its a FLAME forum<br>
+-05-21 17:29:55  Scott: ignore it<br>
+-05-21 17:29:59  SlickVic: I have no use for it, but I don't have to vist there so its not an issue to me.<br>
+-05-21 17:30:06  Food: Once ToS is Re-written then I think Flame Forum will be fine.<br>
+-05-21 17:30:06  Risque: Exactly, Slick<br>
+-05-21 17:30:10  007Ben: id rather not click on a link that is said to be a video and be shown genetalia <br>
+-05-21 17:30:13  Zorg: Well personal attacks in the flame forum will be banned by the TOS soon.<br>
+-05-21 17:30:25  KevinMp: then in that case, flame forums are good 2 go<br>
+-05-21 17:30:27  zerocomman: half the stuff in flame would just normally be in non-related<br>
+-05-21 17:30:28  Scott: 0007, that si one of the things that will be banned by  Tos<br>
+-05-21 17:30:29  darp: How is it a Flame forum then?<br>
+-05-21 17:30:29  Ross: makes sense<br>
+-05-21 17:30:29  Tibos: doesn't that ... contradict the purpose?<br>
+-05-21 17:30:32  Bernard721: Well genetalia is considered pornography... so new ToS  will limit that<br>
+-05-21 17:30:38  Ross: -_-<br>
+-05-21 17:30:43  Angel: It's good, in myopinion because it reveals what some people will do, and helps to decide upon giving them such respect as staff positions, Elder positions etc, if they say something out of line it shows how they can't make points across without being a <br>
+-05-21 17:30:47  Ross: you guys have tge wrong end of a stick as to what a flame forum is...<br>
+-05-21 17:30:50  bcfcespley: angel stop with the essays XD<br>
+-05-21 17:30:53  Angel: complete ass...<br>
+-05-21 17:31:00  Scott: for the past few weeks i have edited out a few things that violate a few things<br>
+-05-21 17:31:04  Zorg: ...*shrug* but there is untested liability through internet bullying if you allow your website to be used for personal attacks against others.<br>
+-05-21 17:31:04  Rotten: Remove the flame forum<br>
+-05-21 17:31:10  darp: Then pay attention to the summary, there, bcf.<br>
+-05-21 17:31:14  darp: lol<br>
+-05-21 17:31:29  darp: Legal considerations trump all.<br>
+-05-21 17:31:31  Ross: its fine zorg,<br>
+-05-21 17:31:35  Zorg: And I'd rather not be in the court case that tests the water on that one, I'll leave that to facebook and encyclopedia dramatica... they have more money... and lawyers<br>
+-05-21 17:31:46  Ross: the flame forum i suggested to you was merely a forum where restrictions on swearing werent in place<br>
+-05-21 17:31:50  Ross: mainly got every day rants<br>
+-05-21 17:31:50  darp: personal attacks = racism, and all the isms, but everything else is fine?<br>
+-05-21 17:31:52  Ross: or touchy subjects<br>
+-05-21 17:32:00  Scott: Racsim is edited out right now<br>
+-05-21 17:32:04  Ross: people who started abusing others took it way out of the context it was meant<br>
+-05-21 17:32:11  Scott: look at searphims thread right now, shes bitching about my edits<br>
+-05-21 17:32:13  zerocomman: so rename the flame forum so it no longer implies flaming is approved<br>
+-05-21 17:32:15  Bernard721: Yep. Racist is edited... ::roll::<br>
+-05-21 17:32:17  KevinMp: look... the flame forum is gonna get you in hot water :/<br>
+-05-21 17:32:25  Zorg: It will be an open forum with no restriction on content (besides legal restrictions), no language rules... for ranting and complaining. lol<br>
+-05-21 17:32:27  Korin: rename it to swearing forum<br>
+-05-21 17:32:32  KevinMp: if it causes problems, redo it<br>
+-05-21 17:32:32  Ross: woo<br>
+-05-21 17:32:33  Tibos: Open Forum?<br>
+-05-21 17:32:35  Angel: Right now staff 'watch over' the flame forum, so it is just a way of seeing who is here just to fool around and who is here as a more serious manner, than just 'flaming' :)<br>
+-05-21 17:32:44  Bernard721: So why is using a racial slur different than using unrestricted langugage use<br>
+-05-21 17:32:47  Zorg: Right now staff watch over it to delete anything illegal lol<br>
+-05-21 17:32:51  Korin: its not a flame forum without personal attacks<br>
+-05-21 17:32:55  darp: So, I can tear someone a new one in Flame Forum still, as long as I'm not being racist or other ists?<br>
+-05-21 17:32:59  Angel: Exactly Zorg<br>
+-05-21 17:33:00  Korin: rant forum/unrestricted forum/swear forum<br>
+-05-21 17:33:02  Scott: because a racial slur is bullying against someones race <br>
+-05-21 17:33:03  Zorg: Open i.e you can discuss anything... suggestions, legacy stuff, not related stuff.... whatever<br>
+-05-21 17:33:06  Angel: there is it's purpose right there<br>
+-05-21 17:33:20  Scott: in the UK legislation it is illegal to use race against someone :/<br>
+-05-21 17:33:28  Zorg: No you will not be able to use the flame forum for personal attacks against players of the game.<br>
+-05-21 17:33:28  007Ben: if people dont want to read racial slurs, they shouldnt be in the flame forum<br>
+-05-21 17:33:29  Angel: to weed out who wants to act up and who is more civil<br>
+-05-21 17:33:34  Ross: or everyday subjects that could cause tension or hit a few nerves :P<br>
+-05-21 17:33:40  Pie: a while ago, i had trouble explaining to somebody that the Flame Forum was not created for players to attack other players<br>
+-05-21 17:33:46  darp: Then definitely rename it away from Flame forum.<br>
+-05-21 17:33:54  Bernard721: But using a racial slur, not pointed at a specific person is not a personal attack<br>
+-05-21 17:33:56  Zorg: Rename it to what? :/<br>
+-05-21 17:33:58  Ross: -_-<br>
+-05-21 17:34:00  Tibos: Open Forum<br>
+-05-21 17:34:01  Angel: spam forum?<br>
+-05-21 17:34:02  Scott: Open Forum sounds better<br>
+-05-21 17:34:03  darp: Open or such.<br>
+-05-21 17:34:04  Zorg: Chav Forum -_-<br>
+-05-21 17:34:05  Bernard721: 18+?<br>
+-05-21 17:34:10  Ross: darp, you have the wrong end of the stick lol<br>
+-05-21 17:34:10  Scott: Zorg Forum mwhaha<br>
+-05-21 17:34:13  Zorg: ok all the Americans wouldnt get that joke<br>
+-05-21 17:34:16  Angel: All it is essentially is spam<br>
+-05-21 17:34:23  Bernard721: Oh I got the joke<br>
+-05-21 17:34:25  Scott: Post count doesnt count<br>
+-05-21 17:34:30  Scott: so spam shouldnt be an issue<br>
+-05-21 17:34:33  Tibos: actually it's not spam ;)<br>
+-05-21 17:34:39  Bernard721: 18+ Forum... done dea<br>
+-05-21 17:34:40  Scott: Flooding on the otherhand <br>
+-05-21 17:34:42  Bernard721: deal*<br>
+-05-21 17:34:45  Ross: flaming in the UK means swearing<br>
+-05-21 17:34:46  Ross: simple as<br>
+-05-21 17:34:49  Zorg: Spam just makes my nightly db backups take longer. -_-<br>
+-05-21 17:34:49  KevinMp: remake the spam forum and remove the idea of flame. solvves the problem, and lets people say what they want<br>
+-05-21 17:35:02  Scott: *floods Zorgs inbox*<br>
+-05-21 17:35:04  Ross: thats all the intention of the forum was, a place to have no restictions on language<br>
+-05-21 17:35:10  Zorg: ok so Spam Forum, I'll put in place the rules mentioned above... swearing and such will still be allowed.<br>
+-05-21 17:35:11  zerocomman: i doubt people want it to be a spam forum either<br>
+-05-21 17:35:12  Ross: not to actually start inciting hatred on other players<br>
+-05-21 17:35:14  darp: Flaming every where else in the world means verbally abusing people.<br>
+-05-21 17:35:20  Bernard721: Not Spam Forum..<br>
+-05-21 17:35:21  Bernard721: Its not spam<br>
+-05-21 17:35:27  Bernard721: Its discussions that are 18+<br>
+-05-21 17:35:28  Ross: doesnt have to mean people...<br>
+-05-21 17:35:30  Scott: ...<br>
+-05-21 17:35:31  007Ben: adult forum<br>
+-05-21 17:35:34  Risque:  Bigmick - I think having a forum like this puts you on dodgey ground, why take the risk?<br>
+-05-21 17:35:35  Zorg: Mature Forum? o.O<br>
+-05-21 17:35:38  Zorg: That sounds like porn...<br>
+-05-21 17:35:41  Pascal: XD<br>
+-05-21 17:35:42  darp: Mature forum lol<br>
+-05-21 17:35:47  Rotten: people can just lie and say there 18+<br>
+-05-21 17:35:50  Ross: Non-Restricted?<br>
+-05-21 17:35:51  KevinMp: mature forum would lead to porn one way or another<br>
+-05-21 17:35:52  Tibos: Unrestricted Forum if you don't like Open<br>
+-05-21 17:35:52  Rotten: that solves nothing<br>
+-05-21 17:35:53  Scott: are you telling me that a thread about MrImplode being an idiot isnt spam<br>
+-05-21 17:35:54  Scott: o_o<br>
+-05-21 17:35:57  Ross: kinda has a play on words from not-related<br>
+-05-21 17:36:00  Ross: :D<br>
+-05-21 17:36:02  Bernard721: Well of course, I mean I'm 15... but its the players choice<br>
+-05-21 17:36:13  Food: The big boys forum with no offical name forum.<br>
+-05-21 17:36:15  Scott: So technically you shouldnt be in that forum hehe :P<br>
+-05-21 17:36:16  Food: There we go.<br>
+-05-21 17:36:25  darp: People can lie about their age. That's fine. The legal considerations remain covered.<br>
+-05-21 17:36:26  bcfcespley: no because people will read the word unrestricted without reading the tos<br>
+-05-21 17:36:27  zerocomman: does making it a clan rather than a public forum help any?<br>
+-05-21 17:36:32  Scott: and i highly doubt you went "mommy can i acces the big bad forum"<br>
+-05-21 17:36:35  KevinMp: if we had an age limit on a forum, the little kids would complain about not being allowed<br>
+-05-21 17:36:41  KevinMp: i could see them making multis just to access it<br>
+-05-21 17:36:48  Bernard721: Its the internet people<br>
+-05-21 17:36:49  Scott: Multis shouldnt be an issue.<br>
+-05-21 17:36:55  bcfcespley: Hi are you 18? yes, ok {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:36:59  Ross: if people lie about their age and then get offended by what they see<br>
+-05-21 17:37:00  Pie: the Flame Forum has an accept thing that says only accept if you're 18, Kevin<br>
+-05-21 17:37:03  Ross: thats their problem<br>
+-05-21 17:37:13  Bernard721: Ross ::yes::<br>
+-05-21 17:37:13  Scott: people can make multis to read other gang forums.. do you want us to shutdown gangs to 0 day old people lol?<br>
+-05-21 17:37:21  Risque: Charge admission to the flame forum :X<br>
+-05-21 17:37:45  007Ben: i agree with ross, if people get offended after lying about their age, its their oen fault<br>
+-05-21 17:37:45  Scott: if people make multis they get banned <br>
+-05-21 17:37:48  Scott: their own fault<br>
+-05-21 17:37:50  Zorg: ok the forum will remain anyway with some restrictions and a possible rename<br>
+-05-21 17:37:51  007Ben: own*<br>
+-05-21 17:38:04  Scott: Spanky <br>
+-05-21 17:38:09  Scott: are you actually typing<br>
+-05-21 17:38:13  Scott: or have you fallen asleep<br>
+-05-21 17:38:18  Spanky: nope<br>
+-05-21 17:38:20  Risque: rofl<br>
+-05-21 17:38:20  Ross: anyone who gets offended by a few swear words needs a slap anyway<br>
+-05-21 17:38:22  Tibos: no, he's been that way since before we started<br>
+-05-21 17:38:25  Pie: i'm thingking that too, Scott<br>
+-05-21 17:38:26  Pie: xD<br>
+-05-21 17:38:30  Pie: thinking*<br>
+-05-21 17:38:33  Bernard721: {XD}
+-05-21 17:38:33  Angel: i saw that aswell<br>
+-05-21 17:38:33  bcfcespley: hes been typing sinse it started {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:38:36  Angel: :P<br>
+-05-21 17:38:40  Spanky: listening<br>
+-05-21 17:38:49  Pascal: you mean reading<br>
+-05-21 17:38:51  Zorg: Ok another topic, Legacy Affairs<br>
+-05-21 17:38:54  KevinMp: dude... just rename it spam forum. filter the swears, but allow edgier content<br>
+-05-21 17:38:58  Bernard721: OK so just putting it out there... Speak up TC {XD} Private Message me<br>
+-05-21 17:39:07  Zorg: Do you guys want a clan that checks staff logs and reviews staff decisions or not?<br>
+-05-21 17:39:13  Tibos: yes!<br>
+-05-21 17:39:16  jonkers: yes<br>
+-05-21 17:39:16  Ross: damn right<br>
+-05-21 17:39:17  Risque: Yes<br>
+-05-21 17:39:19  Bernard721: ... LA?<br>
+-05-21 17:39:20  007Ben: that would be nice<br>
+-05-21 17:39:23  Pascal: what is the purpose right now?<br>
+-05-21 17:39:26  Pie: .. we already have one<br>
+-05-21 17:39:28  Bernard721: Legacy Affairs....?<br>
+-05-21 17:39:28  Pie: and it does just that<br>
+-05-21 17:39:30  Bernard721: :/<br>
+-05-21 17:39:32  KevinMp: we need to see legacy affairs<br>
+-05-21 17:39:33  zerocomman: assuming the members aren't just going to kiss up to staff all the time<br>
+-05-21 17:39:34  Pie: if anyone's confused<br>
+-05-21 17:39:34  Scott: LA is inactive right now<br>
+-05-21 17:39:39  Angel: LA needs more members and to be made more public, not many people know of it's existance...<br>
+-05-21 17:39:40  Ross: who? FatTony?<br>
+-05-21 17:39:40  Zorg: Basically 2 members of LA are inactive, most issues covered are stuff that could just be ticketed to Lucas anyway.<br>
+-05-21 17:39:45  Ross: he might aswell be staff<br>
+-05-21 17:39:50  Food: I have a question, Does Legacy affairs get used as is?<br>
+-05-21 17:39:51  Ross: you need more less biased views<br>
+-05-21 17:39:57  bcfcespley: exactly ross lol<br>
+-05-21 17:39:58  Pie: LA gets used<br>
+-05-21 17:40:00  Ross: more less?<br>
+-05-21 17:40:02  Ross: anyway<br>
+-05-21 17:40:02  bcfcespley: about to say that<br>
+-05-21 17:40:04  Ross: point stands<br>
+-05-21 17:40:05  Zorg: Legacy Affairs right now raises 1 issue every 2 months or so apparently to Lucas<br>
+-05-21 17:40:05  jonkers: Maybe have a set number from each gang?<br>
+-05-21 17:40:11  Pie: I get approached by faelust occasionally<br>
+-05-21 17:40:16  Bernard721: I went to LA with a legitimate question, and I've never gotten a reply<br>
+-05-21 17:40:18  bcfcespley: please<br>
+-05-21 17:40:26  bcfcespley: whats the point in having it<br>
+-05-21 17:40:29  Zorg: FatTony and calciomoti do not reply to messages much at all.<br>
+-05-21 17:40:50  Zorg: The idea seemed good at the time but it never really got used as it was intended.<br>
+-05-21 17:40:53  Tibos: idk about Calcio, but FT is pretty active as a mod<br>
+-05-21 17:41:00  Angel: I propose more active/responsive members who are rustworthy to give as non-biased pov as possible.<br>
+-05-21 17:41:03  bcfcespley: we have a staff team, some biased players opinion matters not much to me<br>
+-05-21 17:41:06  Zorg: He is active as a mod but he takes 2-3 days to reply to me via PM :/<br>
+-05-21 17:41:07  Angel: trust*<br>
+-05-21 17:41:10  Scott: alot of peopel go to faelust <br>
+-05-21 17:41:12  Ross: thats the only reason FT is active anymore<br>
+-05-21 17:41:20  Scott: I have to say she is one player that gets things done<br>
+-05-21 17:41:21  Ross: hes power drunk lol<br>
+-05-21 17:41:25  Scott: and is fair on both sides<br>
+-05-21 17:41:26  darp: Legacy Affairs has been both timely and effective for me thus far. Would like a few more members from each gang... maybe some public presence, but not sure.<br>
+-05-21 17:41:40  Zorg: We could just shutdown Legacy Affairs... and hand that job to the Elders...<br>
+-05-21 17:41:41  Risque: Public presence is a good idea<br>
+-05-21 17:41:47  Food: I don't think we need LA to be honest, why go through all the trouble of finding trust worthy players when we can just make sure we have trust worthy staff to begin with?<br>
+-05-21 17:41:50  Bernard721: Oh boy... Circular discussion<br>
+-05-21 17:41:51  KevinMp: i guess that could work<br>
+-05-21 17:41:58  Pie: wouldn't that include giving Elders access to RC..?<br>
+-05-21 17:41:59  Pie: &gt;.&gt;<br>
+-05-21 17:41:59  Tibos: sounds like a resonable idea<br>
+-05-21 17:42:00  bcfcespley: I went to LA before, load of rubbish got no replies at all<br>
+-05-21 17:42:02  Ross: yeah thats a good idea zorg<br>
+-05-21 17:42:03  KevinMp: elders could do both :)<br>
+-05-21 17:42:07  Zorg: No, just access to admin_log's<br>
+-05-21 17:42:10  Scott: hmm<br>
+-05-21 17:42:10  zerocomman: i agree. it makes sense to consolidate <br>
+-05-21 17:42:11  Bernard721: That could work<br>
+-05-21 17:42:11  Zorg: and forum_logs and such<br>
+-05-21 17:42:17  Scott: Ross with access to RC logs <br>
+-05-21 17:42:19  jonkers: That leads us to who should be elders.<br>
+-05-21 17:42:21  bcfcespley: hahaha<br>
+-05-21 17:42:22  Scott: i see a car crash<br>
+-05-21 17:42:24  Ross: whats RC?<br>
+-05-21 17:42:31  Pie: move them out of RC? or just copy them? o.0<br>
+-05-21 17:42:34  Tibos: but in that case, i would reduce the number of people in the CoE<br>
+-05-21 17:42:36  Scott: Staff System<br>
+-05-21 17:42:41  Scott: right <br>
+-05-21 17:42:42  Zorg: Then Elders could discuss staff decisions when there are no updates to talk about.<br>
+-05-21 17:42:49  Ross: sounds good <br>
+-05-21 17:42:53  KevinMp: ::yes::<br>
+-05-21 17:42:54  Zorg: This is the point in the discussion where I wanted Lucas' feedback as well -_-<br>
+-05-21 17:42:55  Pie: i don't like that idea<br>
+-05-21 17:42:55  Food: Sounds like a plan.<br>
+-05-21 17:42:56  darp: Mmm... worth trying.<br>
+-05-21 17:42:56  Bernard721: I approve<br>
+-05-21 17:43:07  Ross: Lucas is too busy swiping off<br>
+-05-21 17:43:15  Risque: Can Elders veto a staff decision, by majority vote and with good reason?<br>
+-05-21 17:43:25  Scott: Not really ..<br>
+-05-21 17:43:27  Zorg: Erm, no...<br>
+-05-21 17:43:30  Ross: Lol<br>
+-05-21 17:43:32  Tibos: {xd}<br>
+-05-21 17:43:33  bcfcespley: {XD}{XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:43:40  Scott: if someone does an offense <br>
+-05-21 17:43:40  Zorg: Again... NOT a democracy, lol<br>
+-05-21 17:43:45  Scott: then theyre going to get punished<br>
+-05-21 17:43:46  Pie: Staff should enforce the rules, and be reviewed by the Staff Manager..<br>
+-05-21 17:43:46  Bernard721: 1000c to vote against my Ban<br>
+-05-21 17:43:47  Bernard721: Gogogogogo! <br>
+-05-21 17:43:47  Pie: Lucas<br>
+-05-21 17:43:57  Ross: Lucas should be fired<br>
+-05-21 17:44:00  Ross: Lucas...<br>
+-05-21 17:44:04  bcfcespley: promote scott lol<br>
+-05-21 17:44:09  bcfcespley: only one who bothers around here<br>
+-05-21 17:44:09  Scott: you cant exactly say "he fell asleep whislt on the enter button" if i -4 someome that has 3 spam offences this year<br>
+-05-21 17:44:09  Food: ^^ Agree with Pie.<br>
+-05-21 17:44:18  Scott: ive heard that excuse 5 times now<br>
+-05-21 17:44:24  Zorg: yes and Lucas should be active in the Elders forum in their review of logs<br>
+-05-21 17:44:26  Scott: i fell asleep .. my ass <br>
+-05-21 17:44:47  Zorg: We're not talking about giving Elders any power over staff decisions... and we dont really have anything to hide. :/<br>
+-05-21 17:44:57  Zorg: Most staff decisions are based on a pre-determined ruleset written by the staff manager anyway.<br>
+-05-21 17:45:06  Ross: except Deegs corpse?<br>
+-05-21 17:45:26  Bernard721: The Staff Manager seems really active....<br>
+-05-21 17:45:30  Scott: Deegs threads have pretty much been reviewed by Lucas and are upto date<br>
+-05-21 17:45:30  Tibos: so we get to check up on staff and tell Lucas when he needs to spank someone?<br>
+-05-21 17:45:35  Scott: and Lucas is active<br>
+-05-21 17:45:39  Zorg: Account Admins collect evidence, review account history and determine a punishment based on rules defined by Deeg and Lucas... that should be easily defendable if questioned. :/<br>
+-05-21 17:46:03  Pie: I think that a group as large as the Elders wouldn't be capable of making decisions on Staff issues<br>
+-05-21 17:46:14  Pie: if there is a group, i think expanding LA slightly is the best option<br>
+-05-21 17:46:18  Risque: That was part of my point, Zorg. Staff isn't all knowing O.o<br>
+-05-21 17:46:19  Scott: Elders will be reduced once inactive have been kicked by myself :D<br>
+-05-21 17:46:21  Zorg: They wouldn't be making decisions though.<br>
+-05-21 17:46:27  darp: Then expand LA a bit. It has worked very well for me.<br>
+-05-21 17:46:27  Pie: i meant<br>
+-05-21 17:46:33  Pie: reviewing staff decisions when needed<br>
+-05-21 17:46:53  Pie: Lucas does the same job as LA<br>
+-05-21 17:46:55  Angel: so if LA turns into Elders job aswell, what will decide Elders, wold you use the method i suggested? Oh applications then reviewing within the Elders forum?<br>
+-05-21 17:47:04  Scott: Bit of both Angel<br>
+-05-21 17:47:05  Ross: or, incoprorate less biased views and let the elders do it?<br>
+-05-21 17:47:20  Scott: Elders has alot of bias people in it :P<br>
+-05-21 17:47:21  Ross: and give them more purpose in the process<br>
+-05-21 17:47:21  Angel: to me that sounds like the best approach<br>
+-05-21 17:47:22  Pie: the expanded LA wouldn't be biased<br>
+-05-21 17:47:28  Ross: its universal to gangs though<br>
+-05-21 17:47:32  Angel: but they are just giving input<br>
+-05-21 17:47:32  Pie: I think getting respected community members would be good<br>
+-05-21 17:47:35  Scott: Ross you cant exactly say you're unbiased :P<br>
+-05-21 17:47:35  Angel: like always<br>
+-05-21 17:47:39  KevinMp: Pie yes :O<br>
+-05-21 17:47:39  Zorg: Yes the problem is players dont trust a single individual to be unbiased and watch over staff... they didn't trust Deeg and I doubt they trust Lucas any more.<br>
+-05-21 17:47:41  Angel: it is ultimately a staff decision<br>
+-05-21 17:47:47  Bernard721: PLayers should have access to their own personal crime history<br>
+-05-21 17:47:51  Bernard721: That was really random<br>
+-05-21 17:47:52  Scott: Nope<br>
+-05-21 17:47:52  Bernard721: But yea.<br>
+-05-21 17:47:56  Scott: Not happening<br>
+-05-21 17:47:57  Zorg: Making the staff process more transparent would solve that.<br>
+-05-21 17:48:05  darp: Agreed with Zorg on both points.<br>
+-05-21 17:48:10  Pie: But who do they think chooses who's in LA, Zorg?<br>
+-05-21 17:48:21  Pie: the same person that chooses who the staff manager is..<br>
+-05-21 17:48:28  Zorg: When you assign overseeing power to a single person, most players will assume they're friends with all the staff and in it for the power, etc, etc<br>
+-05-21 17:48:42  Zorg: I picked the LA :/<br>
+-05-21 17:48:48  Pie: you also picked Lucas<br>
+-05-21 17:48:49  Zorg: Originally the staff manager couldnt even view their forum<br>
+-05-21 17:48:52  darp: You don't have to pull the curtain all the way back for every one to see, but there is benefit to people thinking they have some insight or influence on things.<br>
+-05-21 17:48:53  Ross: to be fair though, Lucas is more likely to just accept the staffs decision than turn around and say it was wrong<br>
+-05-21 17:48:59  bcfcespley: yeah me sucking zorg of had me nothing to do with being able to do graphics<br>
+-05-21 17:49:00  Pie: so why shouldn't they doubt your decisons on one and not the other?<br>
+-05-21 17:49:05  Scott: Actually<br>
+-05-21 17:49:10  KevinMp: bcfcespley -_- lol<br>
+-05-21 17:49:17  Scott: Lucas reverted 2 of my decisions when I was rank 2 <br>
+-05-21 17:49:26  Scott: He does his job.<br>
+-05-21 17:49:31  darp: And Staff managers have *never* done due dilligence that I've seen in investigating or communicationg staff/player issues.<br>
+-05-21 17:49:34  Bernard721: Checks and balances are a mighty thing<br>
+-05-21 17:49:35  bcfcespley: BUT<br>
+-05-21 17:49:39  Tibos: groups are more trustworthy than a single person<br>
+-05-21 17:49:41  bcfcespley: i think scott would do a better job<br>
+-05-21 17:49:48  Zorg: Of course Lucas is, thats how chains of command work. I'd always side with staff even if they were wrong, i'd then yell at them in private after...<br>
+-05-21 17:49:50  Scott: I'm fine as development manager<br>
+-05-21 17:49:57  Ross: Lol<br>
+-05-21 17:50:04  Pie: It's true.. xD<br>
+-05-21 17:50:10  darp: Oh dear.<br>
+-05-21 17:50:11  Zorg: You have to present a unified front as a staff team.<br>
+-05-21 17:50:11  bcfcespley: lol ive been yelled at {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:50:16  Zorg: And keep the arguements in private.<br>
+-05-21 17:50:37  Scott: Right so to recap <br>
+-05-21 17:50:38  Bernard721: Not to be that guy, and bring in politics... but I mean a congress of elected representives, like the LA would be a great thing to have to review staff decisions<br>
+-05-21 17:50:42  Scott: Bigger LA team or Edlers ?<br>
+-05-21 17:50:48  Ross: Elders<br>
+-05-21 17:50:49  Bernard721: Elders<br>
+-05-21 17:50:50  Scott: Elders*<br>
+-05-21 17:50:51  bcfcespley: Elders<br>
+-05-21 17:50:53  Pascal: elders<br>
+-05-21 17:50:54  Tibos: i sai 16 elders<br>
+-05-21 17:50:54  Pie: Larger selection of LA<br>
+-05-21 17:50:55  Angel: Elders<br>
+-05-21 17:50:55  007Ben: elders<br>
+-05-21 17:50:59  Scott: Or <br>
+-05-21 17:51:00  Food: LA<br>
+-05-21 17:51:07  Scott: one sec
+-05-21 17:51:09  Scott: i have an idea<br>
+-05-21 17:51:15  Zorg: I just think making staff decisions public to the Elders... and the rules that govern staff decisions public to the Elders... would lead to very little discussion on their part as they would understand our position.<br>
+-05-21 17:51:16  Pie: a group as large as the elders would be inefficient.. -.-<br>
+-05-21 17:51:18  Scott: La can only be picked from elders <br>
+-05-21 17:51:19  darp: Hmm... outvoted. :P Was going to say bigger LA team, but try with the Elders. See if it solves the inactivity problem.<br>
+-05-21 17:51:26  Zorg: Unless our position is in some way flawed, in which case they have every right to argue with it.<br>
+-05-21 17:51:32  Scott: so youd have to progress to elder before you could have a shot at LA ?<br>
+-05-21 17:51:43  Pie: Pick LA from elders<br>
+-05-21 17:51:45  Pie: problem solved<br>
+-05-21 17:51:46  darp: Or LA grabbed from Elders could work,.<br>
+-05-21 17:51:46  Bernard721: That could work too<br>
+-05-21 17:51:49  KevinMp: that sounds fair i guess<br>
+-05-21 17:51:52  Pie: darp : win<br>
+-05-21 17:51:53  Bernard721: A higher chain<br>
+-05-21 17:51:54  Pie: 8)<br>
+-05-21 17:51:54  Scott: thats what i said darp<br>
+-05-21 17:51:55  Food: That works Scott.<br>
+-05-21 17:51:55  Scott: XD<br>
+-05-21 17:52:05  Zorg: Did darp just out-vote everybody with one vote? wtf<br>
+-05-21 17:52:14  Ross: how would that change anything?<br>
+-05-21 17:52:17  Pie: i beat him to saying it dammit<br>
+-05-21 17:52:20  Ross: it would still be faelust, FT and calcio...<br>
+-05-21 17:52:21  Tibos: no, he has a good point<br>
+-05-21 17:52:23  jonkers: Have we decided on who should be elders?<br>
+-05-21 17:52:24  Scott: Nope<br>
+-05-21 17:52:29  Scott: once we de-weed elders<br>
+-05-21 17:52:31  Bernard721: A meeting in ONline Chat of elders can solve so many things.. I mean just look at this.. 4 representives from 4 gangs having a discussion<br>
+-05-21 17:52:37  Zorg: Inactive Elders will be removed, the remaining Elders....<br>
+-05-21 17:52:41  Scott: im sure La will start to collect members from my teah<br>
+-05-21 17:52:41  Zorg: will decide who the new Elders will be<br>
+-05-21 17:52:43  darp: lol... I'm lagging a bit. :P<br>
+-05-21 17:52:47  Ross: right<br>
+-05-21 17:52:48  Scott: team*<br>
+-05-21 17:52:49  Zorg: and then all those people combined... will decide who the LA people will be<br>
+-05-21 17:53:01  KevinMp: sounds like a plan ::yes::<br>
+-05-21 17:53:07  Scott: ok<br>
+-05-21 17:53:08  darp: Go with that and review next LegCon.<br>
+-05-21 17:53:15  Risque: I concur <br>
+-05-21 17:53:15  jonkers: What about a max number of elders?<br>
+-05-21 17:53:18  Zorg: And how do we suggest we make the secret group within the secret Elders public knowledge to those confused as to why they were banned? :/<br>
+-05-21 17:53:26  Rotten: like 50 elders max<br>
+-05-21 17:53:38  bcfcespley: ok zorg just confused me {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:53:40  Ross: have an LA rep?<br>
+-05-21 17:53:41  Tibos: 50 is a big number :P<br>
+-05-21 17:53:42  jonkers: I think 50 is too many<br>
+-05-21 17:53:47  Pie: a rep sounds good<br>
+-05-21 17:53:47  Ross: who is responsible for explaining<br>
+-05-21 17:53:52  Zorg: It will stay around 20 or so people<br>
+-05-21 17:53:53  Pie: With a thread somehere<br>
+-05-21 17:53:59  KevinMp: 50 = too many. try... 20? ish?<br>
+-05-21 17:54:00  Pie: or a page displaying information<br>
+-05-21 17:54:09  jonkers: What about a max number per gang?<br>
+-05-21 17:54:14  Ross: no<br>
+-05-21 17:54:14  bcfcespley: no jonkers<br>
+-05-21 17:54:16  Scott: Hopefully elder control can be added to RC in the day :P<br>
+-05-21 17:54:18  bcfcespley: because people do move gangs :/<br>
+-05-21 17:54:19  darp: Community Menu link to a page?<br>
+-05-21 17:54:20  Zorg: Elders and LA are independant of gangs. :/<br>
+-05-21 17:54:22  Tibos: CoE has nothing to do with gangs<br>
+-05-21 17:54:26  Bernard721: Ok.. so we're having an applation process into the LA? How are Elders elected... did we resolve that yet?<br>
+-05-21 17:54:27  Zorg: I dont want it to have any attachment to gangs at all<br>
+-05-21 17:54:33  Angel: Zorg Elders picking who becomes Elder would like to biased choosing... If there was a staff member to take it interest, then brought to the attention of the Elders, it would feel less like a lolly bag, picking the best ones you like...<br>
+-05-21 17:54:36  Pie: create an open forum where the new LA can review Staff and the discussion be viewed by everyone<br>
+-05-21 17:54:41  Pie: but only the LA can post..<br>
+-05-21 17:54:44  Scott: Right now angel<br>
+-05-21 17:54:45  Zorg: As far as I'm concerned one of the rules of the Elder forum will be that gangs dont exist there.<br>
+-05-21 17:54:53  Scott: i like the idea of elders suggesting and applications <br>
+-05-21 17:54:53  Ross: fair enough<br>
+-05-21 17:55:03  Zorg: ooo like a security forum only instead of staff using it...<br>
+-05-21 17:55:04  Zorg: LA members?<br>
+-05-21 17:55:08  bcfcespley: lets face it how is heggs not in coe? {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:55:08  jonkers: sounds good<br>
+-05-21 17:55:13  Pie: yep<br>
+-05-21 17:55:16  Scott: heggs is in coe ...<br>
+-05-21 17:55:17  Food: Elders reommand people, scott reviews them and makes a dicision?<br>
+-05-21 17:55:20  bcfcespley: oh {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:55:20  Ross: she is...<br>
+-05-21 17:55:25  Ross: BCFCEEJIT<br>
+-05-21 17:55:29  Zorg: could try that I guess... like a public forum run by legacy affairs<br>
+-05-21 17:55:33  Scott: see i know my own members 8~)<br>
+-05-21 17:55:36  Scott: 8) * :P<br>
+-05-21 17:55:40  Pie: but in security, everyone can post.. in the LA one, remove the option to post for anybody else<br>
+-05-21 17:55:43  darp: Good.<br>
+-05-21 17:55:46  KevinMp: so... players nominate people. staff then chooses from those<br>
+-05-21 17:55:55  KevinMp: and they become elders, who choose LA?<br>
+-05-21 17:56:01  Zorg: erm no<br>
+-05-21 17:56:02  zerocomman: elders choose la<br>
+-05-21 17:56:04  Ross: elders choose the elders...<br>
+-05-21 17:56:08  KevinMp: o other way around. oops<br>
+-05-21 17:56:13  KevinMp: but same thing?<br>
+-05-21 17:56:15  Zorg: Elders choose Elders... Elders choose LA.<br>
+-05-21 17:56:15  Scott: We're going in circles here<br>
+-05-21 17:56:23  Zorg: If you're not an Elder... you have no say in either<br>
+-05-21 17:56:23  KevinMp: :O intriguing :P<br>
+-05-21 17:56:29  Pie: xD<br>
+-05-21 17:56:34  Ross: Lol<br>
+-05-21 17:56:38  Zorg: I asked if people wanted to keep it an elitist invite only group, you guys said yes :P<br>
+-05-21 17:56:39  Bernard721: So we're weeding out the inactives, and they will eventually pick new ones<br>
+-05-21 17:56:40  Tibos: power hungry old people<br>
+-05-21 17:56:47  Scott: I'm guessing myself and Zorg will run Elders and Lucas and Zorg will run LA still<br>
+-05-21 17:56:55  KevinMp: but on what grounds do they pick these people?<br>
+-05-21 17:56:59  Pie: Elders i thought were running LA<br>
+-05-21 17:57:00  Angel: staff gathers those that are interested, filters out the 'not going to happen', then brings rhe list to the attention of the Elders, they decide who amongst the list who would best fit the role, the staff then either agrees with them, suggests an alternat<br>
+-05-21 17:57:01  KevinMp: what prereqs should they have?<br>
+-05-21 17:57:10  Angel: ive, or decides against it, and says why<br>
+-05-21 17:57:11  Zorg: Erm, I doubt I'll be involved in Legacy Affairs... staff decisions have never been something I'm interested in :/<br>
+-05-21 17:57:17  Zorg: that's why I have staff and a staff manager :(<br>
+-05-21 17:57:23  Bernard721: {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:57:30  Scott: So you're going to butcher my elders<br>
+-05-21 17:57:32  Zorg: I just want to make cool stuff<br>
+-05-21 17:57:42  Food: Lol Zorg. {xd}<br>
+-05-21 17:57:45  Scott: Saying cool, my flag people :d<br>
+-05-21 17:57:54  KevinMp: scott... shush {XD}<br>
+-05-21 17:57:59  KevinMp: we discuss your flag latah! :O<br>
+-05-21 17:58:01  Bernard721: Already been an hour... lets get to the fun stuff...<br>
+-05-21 17:58:06  Zorg: Ok, hmm there was one last thing I wanted to talk about.<br>
+-05-21 17:58:23  Zorg: ...lemme remember what it was<br>
+-05-21 17:58:29  Risque: ::roll::<br>
+-05-21 17:58:31  KevinMp: something about wl perhaps?<br>
+-05-21 17:58:32  jonkers: :/<br>
+-05-21 17:58:32  Scott: Dev, wiki?<br>
+-05-21 17:58:34  Food: Zorg getting old. :O<br>
+-05-21 17:58:39  Tibos: so....recap Elders pick Elders, Elders pick LA people, Security Forum comes back for others to submit wrong staff decisions?<br>
+-05-21 17:58:39  Scott: Destorying apart of the game?<br>
+-05-21 17:58:53  Bernard721: WL/Duel System/Abilities time {ebil}<br>
+-05-21 17:58:57  Ross: combat achievements :D<br>
+-05-21 17:58:57  Pie: that's not what i was aiming at, Tibos<br>
+-05-21 17:58:58  KevinMp: YAY!<br>
+-05-21 17:59:10  Scott: Ross getting his account removed :P<br>
+-05-21 17:59:11  Pie: Security Forum returns for LA to discuss, with everybody else onlooking<br>
+-05-21 17:59:21  Scott: Pie<br>
+-05-21 17:59:24  Scott: gtfo off my color<br>
+-05-21 17:59:27  Tibos: isn't that a bit public?<br>
+-05-21 17:59:30  Pie: Zorg told me to use Purple<br>
+-05-21 17:59:36  bcfcespley: zorg could you tell us the systems your working on, in what order and the rough time scale?<br>
+-05-21 17:59:37  Pie: Why shouldn't it be public?<br>
+-05-21 17:59:50  Pie: how can people have confidence in something they know nothing about?<br>
+-05-21 17:59:51  KevinMp: ok we all wanna no when the BIG update is comin :P<br>
+-05-21 17:59:56  Zorg: Yeah the new stuff I'm working on I guess.<br>
+-05-21 17:59:57  Scott: bcfc right now, Main Page and bug fixes :P and duel <br>
+-05-21 18:00:01  Tibos: that's how LA was and darp was pleased with it<br>
+-05-21 18:00:07  bcfcespley: no what i mean is<br>
+-05-21 18:00:12  Pie: And he was about the only person<br>
+-05-21 18:00:15  bcfcespley: when will he get around to say achievements<br>
+-05-21 18:00:22  Zorg: Ok first, the current player count.<br>
+-05-21 18:00:31  Zorg: It hasn't actually dropped, as such.<br>
+-05-21 18:00:32  Scott: Next few months bcfc<br>
+-05-21 18:00:41  KevinMp: oo before we go to far...<br>
+-05-21 18:00:46  Zorg: What has happened is we've stopped advertising and I've stopped paying attention to our voting sites.<br>
+-05-21 18:00:50  KevinMp: have you considered in game ads yet?<br>
+-05-21 18:00:52  Zorg: Gold listing Legacy and stuff.<br>
+-05-21 18:01:12  Scott: ...<br>
+-05-21 18:01:13  KevinMp: Hmm... im trying to think about how i found this game<br>
+-05-21 18:01:16  Zorg: Basically this is the result of playing the game myself at various level brackets and being deeply unsatisified with the experience.<br>
+-05-21 18:01:17  Scott: we're not having ingame ads<br>
+-05-21 18:01:25  Zorg: It makes me not want to spend money advertising right now.<br>
+-05-21 18:01:29  KevinMp: i dont even remember how i found it<br>
+-05-21 18:01:29  Pascal: get more ways to get subtime, so we have more advertisements means more new players?<br>
+-05-21 18:01:31  bcfcespley: advertisment vid on youtube, its free!<br>
+-05-21 18:01:36  Scott: bcfc<br>
+-05-21 18:01:43  Bernard721: Advertising what though Bcf?<br>
+-05-21 18:01:46  Bernard721: Text?<br>
+-05-21 18:01:47  Bernard721: :/<br>
+-05-21 18:01:47  Scott: how is watching a screen on a browser based game interestic<br>
+-05-21 18:01:49  Scott: OMG<br>
+-05-21 18:01:54  Zorg: The old player count was the result of the current player count + the constant new players coming and going.<br>
+-05-21 18:01:55  Scott: the square changed coor *signs up*<br>
+-05-21 18:01:55  KevinMp: that comes down to selling it :P<br>
+-05-21 18:02:02  Scott: color*<br>
+-05-21 18:02:03  bcfcespley: not like that you idiot<br>
+-05-21 18:02:16  bcfcespley: get someone to make a good video<br>
+-05-21 18:02:16  Angel: work on the achievements<br>
+-05-21 18:02:18  Food: Stay on topic please.<br>
+-05-21 18:02:24  Scott: Cant exactly make Legacy look like anything other than what it is<br>
+-05-21 18:02:24  Zorg: So the drop is purely the result in the stopping of advertising, I could get the player count back to 3000-4000 by starting again.<br>
+-05-21 18:02:25  Angel: so people will want to refer people they like<br>
+-05-21 18:02:31  Angel: and people will get along easier<br>
+-05-21 18:02:33  Zorg: But I'd rather wait until the new combat and things are done.<br>
+-05-21 18:02:38  bcfcespley: you can scott lol<br>
+-05-21 18:02:39  Zorg: And relaunch the game with new advertisements and such.<br>
+-05-21 18:02:40  Tibos: bcf, i'm sure that if you or someone else makes a good video, Zorg would use it<br>
+-05-21 18:02:42  bcfcespley: its called false advertising<br>
+-05-21 18:02:43  KevinMp: can we offer monetary vaule to those who refer people?<br>
+-05-21 18:02:47  bcfcespley: movie makers do it all the time {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:02:49  KevinMp: other than achievements, like...<br>
+-05-21 18:02:49  Pascal: well get more ways to get subtime...<br>
+-05-21 18:02:52  Zorg: bcfc stop<br>
+-05-21 18:02:54  Scott: Thats illegal by UK law and legacy will be sued<br>
+-05-21 18:02:55  KevinMp: 1k per person that gets to level 10?<br>
+-05-21 18:02:58  Zorg: Like I said I have no interest in advertising at the moment<br>
+-05-21 18:03:01  HappyDays: have we discussed revenue ideas for the game yet to ensure zorg can spend more time on the game ???<br>
+-05-21 18:03:10  Zorg: My revenue is fine.<br>
+-05-21 18:03:15  Bernard721: Referal system needs an overhaul...<br>
+-05-21 18:03:21  Zorg: For now anyway.<br>
+-05-21 18:03:25  HappyDays: :P<br>
+-05-21 18:03:37  HappyDays: So it would be of benefit to ensure a steady stream <br>
+-05-21 18:03:41  HappyDays: For a rainy day <br>
+-05-21 18:04:08  Zorg: I'm not concerned about money, I want to make the game far more fun especially at early levels before relaunching it with new advertisements.<br>
+-05-21 18:04:18  KevinMp: Hmmm<br>
+-05-21 18:04:21  Ross: get the achievements done zorg<br>
+-05-21 18:04:22  Zorg: That is what all the planned changes are about.<br>
+-05-21 18:04:29  Ross: always adds a fun dimension<br>
+-05-21 18:04:31  KevinMp: maybe make the first few levels easier to get?<br>
+-05-21 18:04:33  Zorg: Again achievements are low priority<br>
+-05-21 18:04:34  Food: I agree wi9th ross, we need achievements.<br>
+-05-21 18:04:38  Bernard721: I desire much more in depth role play..<br>
+-05-21 18:04:42  zerocomman: kevinmp this game is already easy enough
+-05-21 18:04:45  Zorg: I'm talking about rebuilding the core stuff that makes the game, not working on small side things<br>
+-05-21 18:04:47  KevinMp: cuz when i logged onto dev, i kind of gave up on leveling.<br>
+-05-21 18:04:48  Pie: Bernard : Join DF<br>
+-05-21 18:04:54  Bernard721: I'll pass.<br>
+-05-21 18:04:55  Pie: they kill you if you don't partake in it<br>
+-05-21 18:04:56  KevinMp: oo the core. ok<br>
+-05-21 18:04:59  zerocomman: it's just boring. if eveyone is honest, they are here 90% for the community<br>
+-05-21 18:05:04  Tibos: {ebil}<br>
+-05-21 18:05:20  Pascal: kind of quests for them? like attack your enemy, congrats you get 100 credits<br>
+-05-21 18:05:26  Scott: yeah but the community cant exactly help everything <br>
+-05-21 18:05:28  Pascal: just basics would do<br>
+-05-21 18:05:29  KevinMp: what were u planning for the new game overhaul?<br>
+-05-21 18:05:35  Scott: 20% of the community cry about legacy daily <br>
+-05-21 18:05:37  KevinMp: we need to knwo about that to incorporate more stuff :P<br>
+-05-21 18:05:41  Zorg: Yes the new combat alone will make warfare and leveling more fun... the other changes... removal of stats, shops and some others are designed to decrease needless complexity in systems.<br>
+-05-21 18:05:44  Pie: All details were posted in blogs? o.0<br>
+-05-21 18:05:53  KevinMp: honestly... we should see how that goes first<br>
+-05-21 18:05:58  Food: Achievements to me : Being able to work towards something and goals, also brings back some competetiveness(Real word?) to the game, which would bring back alot of activity from old and new players.<br>
+-05-21 18:06:09  Bernard721: Make a new tutorial system, where you earn credits/ability points/and stat points for new signups<br>
+-05-21 18:06:13  zerocomman: food nailed it<br>
+-05-21 18:06:18  HappyDays: is the level 80 to 85 thing in the pipeline<br>
+-05-21 18:06:18  Food: I think achievements have alot of potential.<br>
+-05-21 18:06:24  Scott: people have yet to earn the current achievements<br>
+-05-21 18:06:25  Zorg: Yes I agree, achievements worked really well in games like World of Warcraft.<br>
+-05-21 18:06:31  HappyDays: I liked the idea of fighting my way to the top<br>
+-05-21 18:06:43  HappyDays: but dropping if I went inACTIVE<br>
+-05-21 18:06:46  Zorg: But I can't add achievements for systems that are going to be vastly changed by the rebuild.<br>
+-05-21 18:06:52  HappyDays: Gives you something to do when you return again <br>
+-05-21 18:06:58  KevinMp: so we need the new system in first<br>
+-05-21 18:07:02  Zorg: HappyDays that idea would suck with the current combat system though.<br>
+-05-21 18:07:03  Scott: ontop of that theyre not working correctly atm<br>
+-05-21 18:07:08  Tibos: HD that's the spectral item idea<br>
+-05-21 18:07:15  Zorg: The new one I'm designing takes a genuine degree of skill to be good at though, so could work.<br>
+-05-21 18:07:27  Angel: how will it be more fun? are you going to change the look? the same applies with FT's point in the forums, this game is text based, it goes page by page, how can that change? what is this system you seem to be working on? and why wasn't the great tertis <br>
+-05-21 18:07:31  Angel: idea used? :P<br>
+-05-21 18:07:40  Food: No offence to the idea HD suggested, but that will get old quick..just like spectral.<br>
+-05-21 18:07:52  KevinMp: april fools joke ftw {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:08:03  Tibos: text game != non-interactive<br>
+-05-21 18:08:09  HappyDays: thats not my idea <br>
+-05-21 18:08:16  HappyDays: and i did not suggest it :p<br>
+-05-21 18:08:24  Angel: it is as interactive as it gets<br>
+-05-21 18:08:25  Food: I know, can't recall who did. :P<br>
+-05-21 18:08:31  Zorg: But yeah I've been adding new stuff on top of the game for years and our player count hasn't increased. This is what caused me to take a step back and look at what was wrong with the stuff we have in place already.<br>
+-05-21 18:08:37  Angel: so thoughts for 'more' is limited<br>
+-05-21 18:08:42  Zorg: No amount of new stuff is going to fix the problems, it's time to rebuild the old stuff.<br>
+-05-21 18:08:49  Scott: like clans :(<br>
+-05-21 18:08:58  Zorg: no not like clans<br>
+-05-21 18:09:01  Zorg: clans again are a side system<br>
+-05-21 18:09:06  Ross: go Zorg Thatcher!<br>
+-05-21 18:09:09  HappyDays: zorg can we have a buddy system game wide <br>
+-05-21 18:09:13  Scott: but theyre still old :P<br>
+-05-21 18:09:20  HappyDays: for example noob 1 signs up and gets sent a mail <br>
+-05-21 18:09:25  Zorg: It's the core of the game I'm addressing with these changes, stats, items, fighting, warfare, turns, jobs... the stuff people spend most of their time using.<br>
+-05-21 18:09:30  Scott: We have guides for that HappyDays<br>
+-05-21 18:09:37  HappyDays: saying happysays would be delighted to get to know you <br>
+-05-21 18:09:43  Ross: zorg, is the combat system highest priority then?<br>
+-05-21 18:09:43  Angel: no amount of new stuff is going to fix the problems, you said it yourself, why spend all this time changing it, if the problem remains?<br>
+-05-21 18:09:48  HappyDays: drop him a mail if you wish <br>
+-05-21 18:09:53  HappyDays: to beuild friendships <br>
+-05-21 18:10:00  HappyDays: build <br>
+-05-21 18:10:09  HappyDays: and so creating bonds <br>
+-05-21 18:10:09  Pie: nothing is being added on..<br>
+-05-21 18:10:12  Pie: it's being rebuilt..<br>
+-05-21 18:10:12  Zorg: Anyway I've explained all this in my blog already.<br>
+-05-21 18:10:17  Tibos: indeed<br>
+-05-21 18:10:34  Scott: ok<br>
+-05-21 18:10:48  Scott: I'm now goign to ask gangs to raise any points <br>
+-05-21 18:10:50  Scott: so DF <br>
+-05-21 18:10:56  Scott: do you have any issues you want to raise<br>
+-05-21 18:11:01  jonkers: we do<br>
+-05-21 18:11:04  Tibos: sure<br>
+-05-21 18:11:11  jonkers: Tibos wil out line the main points<br>
+-05-21 18:11:11  Scott: Go ahead<br>
+-05-21 18:11:19  KevinMp: Nows ur chance BoD. send me ur stuff. i already marked whats in the forums<br>
+-05-21 18:11:38  jonkers: Kevin DF are talking.<br>
+-05-21 18:11:44  Tibos: to blunt it out, we think there needs to be a more drastic cost to switching gangs<br>
+-05-21 18:11:49  KevinMp: :*( lol<br>
+-05-21 18:11:52  Tibos: or perhaps a change alltogether<br>
+-05-21 18:11:57  Scott: 500c is alot to a level 20<br>
+-05-21 18:12:00  bcfcespley: you werent complaining last year<br>
+-05-21 18:12:01  Zorg: that was the point of gang reps<br>
+-05-21 18:12:05  jonkers: or a total ban on changing gang during a WL round.<br>
+-05-21 18:12:07  bcfcespley: when everyone was joining you<br>
+-05-21 18:12:07  Zorg: to make it harder to switch<br>
+-05-21 18:12:13  Tibos: bcf, i actually was ;)<br>
+-05-21 18:12:15  Zorg: hush bcfc<br>
+-05-21 18:12:26  Tibos: anyway, 2 ideas crossed our minds<br>
+-05-21 18:12:35  Tibos: 1) increase cost for multiple joins in a period of time<br>
+-05-21 18:12:48  SlickVic: I would suggest a time limit on joining another after leaving one.<br>
+-05-21 18:12:53  Tibos: ex: join DF cost 500c. Join OC a week later cost 1000c<br>
+-05-21 18:12:57  Scott: So for example 500c the first time.. 750 the second and so on ?<br>
+-05-21 18:12:59  SlickVic: 2 weeks or something<br>
+-05-21 18:13:11  Scott: Is gang hopping a big problem ?<br>
+-05-21 18:13:19  Tibos: and the cost gets reset after a small while<br>
+-05-21 18:13:23  Scott: i mean. Its a cost to one gang but a gain to another?<br>
+-05-21 18:13:26  Pie: it's a game.. if yuo're not having fun in a gang you joined, why should you have to stay there? -.-<br>
+-05-21 18:13:27  Food: It's a game, people should be free to come and go as they wish on here, the system we have now is fine.<br>
+-05-21 18:13:34  zerocomman: however, it drives who dominates the wl each round<br>
+-05-21 18:13:40  zerocomman: i've been both on winning and losing sides of that<br>
+-05-21 18:13:40  Tibos: another idea is from football<br>
+-05-21 18:13:41  SlickVic: I don't consider it a problem<br>
+-05-21 18:14:00  Tibos: to minimize the interference in WL strategy, have a transfer window of 2 weeks at the start of each round<br>
+-05-21 18:14:01  Scott: ah but WF isnt just the members<br>
+-05-21 18:14:03  Ross: competitive balance is worse than MLB in this game {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:14:06  Tibos: and 2 weeks after joining the game<br>
+-05-21 18:14:07  Scott: tatics come into play<br>
+-05-21 18:14:23  zerocomman: tactics are useless if you lack sheer numbers scott<br>
+-05-21 18:14:29  Ross: you need to make the repurcussions for leaving gangs much higher<br>
+-05-21 18:14:31  Angel: you don't penalise people staying and you shouldn't penalise them leaving, last time i checked, there is nothing against the rules about leaving a gang, just getting kicked by it...<br>
+-05-21 18:14:34  Zorg: I dont think forcing players to stay in gangs they do not wish to be in by cost or time limits solves anything.<br>
+-05-21 18:14:38  Scott: I've seen a team of 3 take down a building <br>
+-05-21 18:15:00  Scott: when i was a player myself and base would camp hq's with cloak so lower members could square grab<br>
+-05-21 18:15:04  Ross: or more incentives to stay in gangs longer<br>
+-05-21 18:15:09  Ross: gang loyalty honors banners please :D<br>
+-05-21 18:15:14  Tibos: that's a fair idea Ross<br>
+-05-21 18:15:19  Scott: Like banners?<br>
+-05-21 18:15:25  Ross: indeed<br>
+-05-21 18:15:34  Scott: hmm<br>
+-05-21 18:15:35  Zorg: I think if all the gangs find it a problem they could come with ideas between themselves to stop it.<br>
+-05-21 18:15:36  Rotten: Ross just wants more banners<br>
+-05-21 18:15:36  HappyDays: who cares about banners <br>
+-05-21 18:15:41  Ross: i do <br>
+-05-21 18:15:43  Angel: that doesn't help<br>
+-05-21 18:15:48  Pascal: I do<br>
+-05-21 18:15:49  Angel: as soon as they get the banner<br>
+-05-21 18:15:51  Tibos: @Zorg in the Senate Forum :P<br>
+-05-21 18:15:59  Angel: they will want to leave to get the othr gang related banners<br>
+-05-21 18:16:01  Ross: i've been in TC over 4 years<br>
+-05-21 18:16:06  Ross: noone has na excuse to leave gangs <br>
+-05-21 18:16:10  Ross: an*<br>
+-05-21 18:16:12  HappyDays: sure they do <br>
+-05-21 18:16:21  Zorg: The problem is when someone leaves your gang you're annoyed, when someone joins your gang you're happy... you give little consideration to who they gang hopped through to get to you.<br>
+-05-21 18:16:21  Bernard721: Yikes.<br>
+-05-21 18:16:24  Food: Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Time in gang, etc..going to be under the new achievements Bcfc?<br>
+-05-21 18:16:44  Ross: just have it as an honours banner<br>
+-05-21 18:16:46  Zorg: If I was running a gang I'd black list those who left after a short period of time, and then deny them entry if they tried to come back...<br>
+-05-21 18:16:48  bcfcespley: yeah food i have made it<br>
+-05-21 18:16:49  Zorg: But that's just me<br>
+-05-21 18:16:50  Rotten: I have a idea<br>
+-05-21 18:17:03  bcfcespley: i did make loyalty achievements<br>
+-05-21 18:17:05  Tibos: you banned that Zorg :P<br>
+-05-21 18:17:11  Food: There you go. :O<br>
+-05-21 18:17:14  Rotten: Could we have some sort of drafting for gangs? Like all the hoppers could be held in a draft<br>
+-05-21 18:17:25  Ross: wouldnt work<br>
+-05-21 18:17:30  HappyDays: how would that work rotten ??<br>
+-05-21 18:17:30  Ross: too much backlash<br>
+-05-21 18:17:33  KevinMp: they would leave for the gang they wanna b in :P<br>
+-05-21 18:17:38  Zorg: Make a rule... if you leave this gang and then come back you must spend 2 months at rank 1 before progressing...<br>
+-05-21 18:17:41  Angel: there you go again penalising peoples chooses to be different...<br>
+-05-21 18:17:47  Rotten: not my idea hd just passing on the word<br>
+-05-21 18:17:49  Scott: The problem with gang hopping is<br>
+-05-21 18:17:50  bcfcespley: ranks are useless lol<br>
+-05-21 18:17:53  Scott: its their choice to<br>
+-05-21 18:17:54  bcfcespley: its just a number to me<br>
+-05-21 18:17:57  Ross: noone cares enough for ranks anymore<br>
+-05-21 18:18:04  zerocomman: yea rank 1 as punishment does nothing<br>
+-05-21 18:18:07  Scott: if they dont liek one gang they will continue playing if they switch<br>
+-05-21 18:18:08  Pie: not your idea?<br>
+-05-21 18:18:09  Pie: %u05D3<br>
+-05-21 18:18:15  Pie: 23:17:37 &#91;Rotten&#93; I have a idea<br>
+-05-21 18:18:16  Bernard721: Going to cut my time here short... The discussions seem to be going really swimmingly.. I'll enjoy skimming the log tomorrow<br>
+-05-21 18:18:39  Zorg: I just dont see any suggestions that fix anything, if it is a problem.<br>
+-05-21 18:18:43  Food: I don't think there should be any penalty for leaving gangs, as I said..it's a game, people should be free to come and go, each gang has there own merits and appeals, I see no harm in people leaving one to check out another.<br>
+-05-21 18:18:53  Bernard721: Adios everyone ::yes::<br>
+-05-21 18:18:54  Zorg: You think someone is going to come help you in the wasteland if they're forced to stay due to a time limit or lack of credits?<br>
+-05-21 18:19:01  zerocomman: someone in df suggested that if someone switches gangs mid-map, they are not allowed access to wl until reset<br>
+-05-21 18:19:02  Angel: it's not a problem...<br>
+-05-21 18:19:05  HappyDays: oooooooooo did we discuss gang banks <br>
+-05-21 18:19:14  Angel: If it annoys you big deal, it happens everywhere<br>
+-05-21 18:19:26  Angel: people leave jobs for reasons that are none of your business<br>
+-05-21 18:19:28  Scott: one gang at a time happydays<br>
+-05-21 18:19:30  Zorg: ...again zero, people are not going to be forced in to helping a gang they do not wish to be part of<br>
+-05-21 18:19:35  Pie: denying access to wl is a horrible idea<br>
+-05-21 18:19:36  Tibos: fair enough<br>
+-05-21 18:19:45  Zorg: Forcing them to stay until the WL reset would only make them if anything... try to sabotage your efforts<br>
+-05-21 18:19:47  zerocomman: just speaking up for my peeps<br>
+-05-21 18:19:53  Pie: we know<br>
+-05-21 18:19:53  Tibos: should we move on to our second point?<br>
+-05-21 18:19:54  Pie: xD<br>
+-05-21 18:19:58  bcfcespley: oh thats what i wanted to discuss, the stand storage system {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:19:59  Zorg: yes<br>
+-05-21 18:20:01  Scott: Yeah<br>
+-05-21 18:20:06  Scott: before we go in circles again<br>
+-05-21 18:20:17  Tibos: this is a rather touchy subject as it involves a lot of coding<br>
+-05-21 18:20:26  Scott: heh<br>
+-05-21 18:20:35  Tibos: i recently started a thread in Main Forum regarding the creation of a 5th gang<br>
+-05-21 18:20:37  Pie: i can hear the answer already<br>
+-05-21 18:20:52  Zorg: The player count is lower than when gangs were implemented and you want a new gang?<br>
+-05-21 18:20:52  Tibos: this has received quite a lot of support from players and very little critiques<br>
+-05-21 18:21:26  Tibos: yes and the main argument is that it would enchance the joy of warfare :D<br>
+-05-21 18:21:36  Scott: WF would need a total rework <br>
+-05-21 18:21:36  Angel: you try to abolish gang hopping, and yet add another gang to hop too?<br>
+-05-21 18:21:41  darp: lol<br>
+-05-21 18:21:42  Zorg: I can give you plenty of critique if you wish.<br>
+-05-21 18:21:45  bcfcespley: {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:21:45  Scott: as most maps are catered for 4 hq's <br>
+-05-21 18:21:45  Tibos: and it would increase the usefullness of the gang ranks<br>
+-05-21 18:21:47  Rotten: make it 20x20 for 5 gangs<br>
+-05-21 18:21:59  Tibos: sure,<br>
+-05-21 18:22:01  KevinMp: would a square make sense anymore at that point?<br>
+-05-21 18:22:09  Zorg: For a start... blue, red, yellow, green and purple for avatars<br>
+-05-21 18:22:13  KevinMp: new maps would have to be created<br>
+-05-21 18:22:15  Zorg: The only color left for a new gang is Orange<br>
+-05-21 18:22:20  Zorg: bcfc is turning in his grave at that idea<br>
+-05-21 18:22:23  Pie: purple for staff*?<br>
+-05-21 18:22:25  Tibos: Brown<br>
+-05-21 18:22:25  bcfcespley: lmao<br>
+-05-21 18:22:30  Angel: i don't want to see a 5th gang<br>
+-05-21 18:22:32  bcfcespley: shut up {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:22:32  darp: Even were it a good idea (and it's not) before all the updates isn't really the time to be thinking about this. <br>
+-05-21 18:22:34  Zorg: Brown is just dark orange -_-<br>
+-05-21 18:22:39  zerocomman: so we don't have a 5th gang just because bcfc doesn't like orange :/<br>
+-05-21 18:22:57  bcfcespley: he was joking...<br>
+-05-21 18:22:59  Zorg: No we dont have a 5th gang because Orange is very close to yellow and red. -_-<br>
+-05-21 18:23:04  darp: Zorg, put the hammer down.<br>
+-05-21 18:23:04  Scott: You dont have a 5th gang because we need to see a real reason for you to need one<br>
+-05-21 18:23:07  Zorg: But no thats not the only problem<br>
+-05-21 18:23:33  Zorg: For a start what do you think a 5th gang would address? what long term problems are going to be fixed by the number 5 instead of 4?... soon it would be populated by people I'm sure you'd dislike just as much<br>
+-05-21 18:23:49  Tibos: gang alliances<br>
+-05-21 18:23:49  Zorg: Soon it will have a council just like the other gangs and be no different... it wont be new it will just be ANOTHER gang<br>
+-05-21 18:23:54  Tibos: boredom in WL<br>
+-05-21 18:24:03  Angel: we don't want gang alliances<br>
+-05-21 18:24:05  bcfcespley: it would be like engl;and and immigrants...<br>
+-05-21 18:24:05  Scott: WL is catered for 4 HQ's<br>
+-05-21 18:24:07  darp: Only you can prevent forest fires... and gang alliances.<br>
+-05-21 18:24:08  bcfcespley: over crowded!!<br>
+-05-21 18:24:09  Zorg: Again not even close to long term solutions, in 6 months you'll just want a 6th gang<br>
+-05-21 18:24:16  Angel: If everyone played 1v1v1v1 problem is fixed<br>
+-05-21 18:24:18  KevinMp: it would only be a temporary fix, and thats not something we can take away as easily as put it in the system<br>
+-05-21 18:24:22  darp: And actually 6 gangs makes more sense than 5. :P<br>
+-05-21 18:24:29  Zorg: exactly you're talking about a temporary fix<br>
+-05-21 18:24:41  Zorg: one that will create more long term problems than anything<br>
+-05-21 18:24:48  KevinMp: once we put it in the system, you cant take it out<br>
+-05-21 18:24:50  bcfcespley: maps would have to be re made, new systems, new clothing, new weapons, new everything<br>
+-05-21 18:24:53  bcfcespley: i just dont see it {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:24:53  Angel: then they'd go for lucky number 7<br>
+-05-21 18:24:55  Scott: the imbalence of gangs for the first few months :/<br>
+-05-21 18:24:58  Angel: :P<br>
+-05-21 18:25:02  Scott: inbalance*<br>
+-05-21 18:25:03  KevinMp: people would want to remain in their 5th gang, and would get pissy if it was taken away<br>
+-05-21 18:25:05  Angel: 4 is enough<br>
+-05-21 18:25:16  Scott: people get pissy at anything <br>
+-05-21 18:25:17  Zorg: yes you're talking a ton of work for lots of people to make it happen all for a fix that will amuse people for a couple of months<br>
+-05-21 18:25:19  Zorg: and then be forgotten<br>
+-05-21 18:25:28  Scott: right<br>
+-05-21 18:25:34  Scott: ill say thats that idea wrapped up<br>
+-05-21 18:25:40  jonkers: Next idea?<br>
+-05-21 18:25:40  Tibos: hm....<br>
+-05-21 18:25:42  Scott: DF any last points ?<br>
+-05-21 18:25:52  Tibos: fair enough<br>
+-05-21 18:26:06  zerocomman: yea, 2 more suggestions<br>
+-05-21 18:26:11  HappyDays: :x<br>
+-05-21 18:26:15  Zorg: Every change I implement is intended to be a permanent fix for a problem.<br>
+-05-21 18:26:24  jonkers: shh HD you will get your turn<br>
+-05-21 18:26:26  Zorg: ...apart from Spectral Items, that was just something shinny to distract people.<br>
+-05-21 18:26:33  Scott: XD<br>
+-05-21 18:26:39  Zorg: Ok are DF done?<br>
+-05-21 18:26:43  jonkers: no<br>
+-05-21 18:26:50  Scott: then hurry up please<br>
+-05-21 18:26:56  Tibos: Zero?<br>
+-05-21 18:27:01  Pie: we're running 90 mins..<br>
+-05-21 18:27:02  Zorg: Due to the length of time this is taking you to type.<br>
+-05-21 18:27:05  Zorg: I'm gonna say no -_-<br>
+-05-21 18:27:08  Scott: TC<br>
+-05-21 18:27:11  Scott: any points<br>
+-05-21 18:27:20  Scott: ... <br>
+-05-21 18:27:27  Zorg: If it takes you that long to explain it, I'm not implementing it lol<br>
+-05-21 18:27:27  Pascal: one<br>
+-05-21 18:27:35  Pascal: im lagging :x<br>
+-05-21 18:27:39  Scott: great<br>
+-05-21 18:27:41  zerocomman: i was waiting for you to pay attention rather than continue blabbing<br>
+-05-21 18:27:42  Zorg: and I'm bored<br>
+-05-21 18:27:43  007Ben: ive got some too :P<br>
+-05-21 18:27:48  Ross: yeah can we have honours banners for gang loyalty?<br>
+-05-21 18:27:51  Pascal: say it ben<br>
+-05-21 18:27:52  Scott: No.<br>
+-05-21 18:27:54  Zorg: I was sitting here for 2 minutes waiting for you to type it dude<br>
+-05-21 18:28:10  zerocomman: ability to counteract radiance<br>
+-05-21 18:28:20  zerocomman: and lastly, staff favor should not benefit combat<br>
+-05-21 18:28:29  Angel: not your turn zero<br>
+-05-21 18:28:34  Zorg: this kind of stuff can go in the suggestions forum.<br>
+-05-21 18:28:35  Scott: +3 and more is really rare <br>
+-05-21 18:28:37  Zorg: :/<br>
+-05-21 18:28:43  007Ben: i really dont see the point of needing to ask permission to attack people with the new attack system. and with free hunting everyone would get to Av in no-time<br>
+-05-21 18:28:51  Scott: ask.. permission ?<br>
+-05-21 18:28:56  Zorg: ^- thats more like the stuff i wanted to hear<br>
+-05-21 18:29:00  Zorg: Not just suggestion forum stuff<br>
+-05-21 18:29:08  007Ben: like they need to acceot in the duel<br>
+-05-21 18:29:12  Scott: oh yeah<br>
+-05-21 18:29:19  Scott: sorry my mind is in the old system XD<br>
+-05-21 18:29:22  Zorg: The new combat system requires both sides of the fight to be active as it requires the selection of abilities....<br>
+-05-21 18:29:28  007Ben: like this is an assassin game, i dont need to ask to attack someone :P<br>
+-05-21 18:29:31  Food: Thanks ben, stealing my one thing I had in mind. *cries*<br>
+-05-21 18:29:39  SlickVic: for all levels?<br>
+-05-21 18:29:41  007Ben: lol<br>
+-05-21 18:30:14  Zorg: So the alternative would be you attack people who are ultimately defenceless...offline even... which is pointless.<br>
+-05-21 18:30:24  Scott: same system we have now..<br>
+-05-21 18:30:43  Scott: so really wed just be putting new GFx and coding but keeping the old system<br>
+-05-21 18:30:53  Food: Wondering, can't we have a duel system and a PVP system like we have now?<br>
+-05-21 18:30:54  Tibos: i think we really need to see it in action before we can criticize it<br>
+-05-21 18:30:56  Pascal: isn't that the same hunting will going to be then?<br>
+-05-21 18:30:56  SlickVic: so then hunting would be the main leveling system then?<br>
+-05-21 18:30:58  Zorg: Basically the alternative for someone online would be a pop up that interupted whatever you're doing saying... you're being attacked now you must go to the attack screen and defend yourself.<br>
+-05-21 18:31:25  Pie: can me and Scott have a duel on Dev?<br>
+-05-21 18:31:26  007Ben: or the dueling system could be a way to fight for c's?<br>
+-05-21 18:31:34  007Ben: like a bet<br>
+-05-21 18:31:36  zerocomman: the sooner you roll this out on dev, the sooner we can actually give you valid feedback<br>
+-05-21 18:31:42  Zorg: The duel page is a page that says "Insert duel page here." Pie -_-<br>
+-05-21 18:31:50  Ross: Lol<br>
+-05-21 18:31:53  Pie: i'm not gonna try, Zorg... xD<br>
+-05-21 18:31:56  Pie: last time i got stuck -.-<br>
+-05-21 18:32:02  jonkers: Do we have a time frame for this on dev?<br>
+-05-21 18:32:13  Zorg: The point is Hive fighting is pointless, the only time it is remotely even useful in the current system is sniping people as they run to heal.<br>
+-05-21 18:32:35  Zorg: Which will be totally irralevent in the new system anyway, because you'll have players heavily specialized as Medics out in warfare with you anyway.<br>
+-05-21 18:32:44  KevinMp: 8)<br>
+-05-21 18:32:52  Scott: ok<br>
+-05-21 18:32:59  Scott: done?<br>
+-05-21 18:33:07  KevinMp: nooo BoD's turn :x<br>
+-05-21 18:33:07  bcfcespley: will we be able to switch between them or once we pick we have to stay as that speciality?<br>
+-05-21 18:33:08  Zorg: The new system is still being designed.<br>
+-05-21 18:33:10  Food: I need high pvp, I will be lost without it. :(<br>
+-05-21 18:33:10  Pie: hive fighting also gains you exp<br>
+-05-21 18:33:11  Pie: xD<br>
+-05-21 18:33:14  Food: Hive*<br>
+-05-21 18:33:20  Zorg: But it will come together in a way that makes sense, and you'll understand why fighting in the hive would be pointless.<br>
+-05-21 18:33:24  KevinMp: bcfcespley i think so<br>
+-05-21 18:33:29  Food: Take my brother instead of PVP!<br>
+-05-21 18:33:38  Scott: We dont want him<br>
+-05-21 18:33:41  Food: Gah<br>
+-05-21 18:33:44  007Ben: {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:33:48  Scott: Right<br>
+-05-21 18:33:50  darp: We didn't address DF's last two points.<br>
+-05-21 18:33:53  Zorg: I understand the desire to kill players who do not wish to fight you....<br>
+-05-21 18:33:59  KevinMp: :P<br>
+-05-21 18:34:02  Angel: It wasn't DF's turn<br>
+-05-21 18:34:05  Angel: :P<br>
+-05-21 18:34:05  Scott: the suggestion forum points ?<br>
+-05-21 18:34:05  Zorg: Thats why I play on PvP servers in every MMO I ever played.<br>
+-05-21 18:34:17  Zorg: But in Legacy death is meaningless anyway for the most part.<br>
+-05-21 18:34:21  zerocomman: our suggestions weren't worthy darp <br>
+-05-21 18:34:32  Scott: right<br>
+-05-21 18:34:38  zerocomman: mostly cuz i'm the one doing the suggesting :p<br>
+-05-21 18:34:41  Zorg: ability to counteract radiance... no<br>
+-05-21 18:34:56  Zorg: as radiance is not a combat advantage it just gives someone time to sit and do nothing<br>
+-05-21 18:34:58  bcfcespley: radiance removing items, yes :P<br>
+-05-21 18:35:00  Zorg: i see no need to counteract it<br>
+-05-21 18:35:02  jonkers: expo removing items ?<br>
+-05-21 18:35:09  Zorg: plus it kind of ruins the point of it<br>
+-05-21 18:35:17  jonkers: even though you were working on them a year ago?<br>
+-05-21 18:35:21  Scott: expo items are in the tunnel atm <br>
+-05-21 18:35:27  Scott: havnt started planning for them<br>
+-05-21 18:35:29  Zorg: staff favor effecting combat... kind of agree, but it will have very little effect in the new combat system anyway<br>
+-05-21 18:35:41  Food: We were suppose to get exposure removing items as per last LegCon, Someone dropped the ball. *Blames Scott*<br>
+-05-21 18:35:42  Zorg: I'm waiting for bcfc to draw them for me.<br>
+-05-21 18:35:44  zerocomman: so no harm getting rid of these benefits in the meantime<br>
+-05-21 18:35:45  Risque: Expo removing items were discussed at the last LegCon :/<br>
+-05-21 18:35:49  bcfcespley: you what<br>
+-05-21 18:35:54  bcfcespley: i drew you one ages ago lol<br>
+-05-21 18:35:59  Zorg: I asked you like 5 months ago dude, you never sent them!<br>
+-05-21 18:36:03  bcfcespley: yes i did"<br>
+-05-21 18:36:05  Scott: You two<br>
+-05-21 18:36:07  Scott: handbags away<br>
+-05-21 18:36:09  bcfcespley: it was a pill half silver<br>
+-05-21 18:36:10  Zorg: Never arrived at my end<br>
+-05-21 18:36:13  jonkers: I would get fae to :P<br>
+-05-21 18:36:13  Ross: the count attack to radiance is waiting 1 minute<br>
+-05-21 18:36:13  Scott: SHUT UP<br>
+-05-21 18:36:14  Ross: {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:36:16  Tibos: send them again tonight and add them tomorrow<br>
+-05-21 18:36:19  Tibos: everyone is happy<br>
+-05-21 18:36:20  Zorg: Who did you sent it to? cause it wasn't me?<br>
+-05-21 18:36:26  Zorg: *send<br>
+-05-21 18:36:28  bcfcespley: it was and you even commented on it lol<br>
+-05-21 18:36:36  bcfcespley: id re send it but my old laptop blew up {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:36:41  Scott: Dont drop it then<br>
+-05-21 18:36:43  Tibos: and get Legacy Affairs to see who's fault it is<br>
+-05-21 18:36:43  Pascal: wasteland rewards for gang members instead of just a trophy, based on their total wasteland points? <br>
+-05-21 18:36:43  Scott: doofus<br>
+-05-21 18:36:45  Zorg: redraw it<br>
+-05-21 18:36:56  darp: Hahaha<br>
+-05-21 18:36:57  bcfcespley: lol<br>
+-05-21 18:36:58  Scott: WL rewards ...<br>
+-05-21 18:36:59  bcfcespley: nice
+-05-21 18:37:06  Zorg: Discussed when WL was introduced, declined.<br>
+-05-21 18:37:11  KevinMp: is this still "DF's Ideas" -_-<br>
+-05-21 18:37:18  jonkers: yes<br>
+-05-21 18:37:28  Pie: i thought this was TC<br>
+-05-21 18:37:32  Tibos: we are done i think<br>
+-05-21 18:37:33  Food: {xd}<br>
+-05-21 18:37:33  Zorg: No just zero was throwing his toys out of the pram cause I didn't answer him<br>
+-05-21 18:37:37  Scott: Her*<br>
+-05-21 18:37:43  jonkers: Zero is a she darp :)<br>
+-05-21 18:37:48  jonkers: darp<br>
+-05-21 18:37:52  jonkers: zorg<br>
+-05-21 18:37:53  Pie: everybody is a guy in here.. pssh<br>
+-05-21 18:37:53  Zorg: o.O<br>
+-05-21 18:37:54  zerocomman: i'm a she zorg<br>
+-05-21 18:38:00  darp: I am aware.<br>
+-05-21 18:38:04  Scott: Anyway<br>
+-05-21 18:38:07  Scott: BoD<br>
+-05-21 18:38:10  Scott: any points<br>
+-05-21 18:38:11  darp: Girls have innies.<br>
+-05-21 18:38:18  KevinMp: yes! someone brought something up to me<br>
+-05-21 18:38:22  Pascal: next<br>
+-05-21 18:38:22  Scott: Great.<br>
+-05-21 18:38:30  Scott: XD<br>
+-05-21 18:38:30  KevinMp: this player says he dropped a bunch of credits into hunting<br>
+-05-21 18:38:30  Scott: would you like to tell us what<br>
+-05-21 18:38:35  Pascal: gang<br>
+-05-21 18:38:37  Scott: oh god<br>
+-05-21 18:38:44  KevinMp: the new updates mean people will get avatar for free?<br>
+-05-21 18:38:48  Scott: is this going to be a bug report int he form of a question<br>
+-05-21 18:38:49  Zorg: cool story, tell it again<br>
+-05-21 18:38:50  KevinMp: would this person get this money back?<br>
+-05-21 18:38:56  Pie: lol<br>
+-05-21 18:39:01  Pascal: no tc is done<br>
+-05-21 18:39:02  Pascal: XD<br>
+-05-21 18:39:16  Zorg: yeah I'm going to refund 4 years of hunting, tell him to expect a bajillion credits in the mail shortly<br>
+-05-21 18:39:23  Scott: XD<br>
+-05-21 18:39:24  bcfcespley: {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:39:24  Risque: rofl<br>
+-05-21 18:39:25  KevinMp: -_- thank you zorg lmao<br>
+-05-21 18:39:27  Tibos: {xd}<br>
+-05-21 18:39:32  jonkers: woop<br>
+-05-21 18:39:33  KevinMp: so hunting will cost money in the new system then?<br>
+-05-21 18:39:34  Zorg: There are people who leveled before hunting existed<br>
+-05-21 18:39:39  Zorg: there are people who leveled after it was added<br>
+-05-21 18:39:47  Scott: ok<br>
+-05-21 18:39:47  Zorg: There are people who leveled before gangs existed so could attack anyone<br>
+-05-21 18:39:55  Zorg: during midnight revives... the game changes... leveling changes<br>
+-05-21 18:40:01  Zorg: It is not my intention to make anything easier or cheaper<br>
+-05-21 18:40:09  Zorg: and I will make the changes needed to balance it to the best of my ability<br>
+-05-21 18:40:24  KevinMp: so hunting, if its still in the game, will continue to cost money?<br>
+-05-21 18:40:28  Scott: this is going to be a long blog <br>
+-05-21 18:40:29  Zorg: I like the current amount of time it takes to get to Avatar and have no intention of decreasing it<br>
+-05-21 18:40:36  Scott: kevinmp<br>
+-05-21 18:40:36  Ross: to be fair zorg<br>
+-05-21 18:40:42  Scott: im sure that has been answered ina  blog<br>
+-05-21 18:40:46  Zorg: Hunting will be free, costs will be introduced in different areas<br>
+-05-21 18:40:48  Ross: you mae things easier when you allowed the transfers of credits and items legally....<br>
+-05-21 18:40:53  Ross: made*<br>
+-05-21 18:40:54  KevinMp: allright im all good then<br>
+-05-21 18:40:58  darp: The ones I am aware of, LA and COE, were addressed.<br>
+-05-21 18:41:10  Zorg: Hunting is just taking the place of player search &gt; attack player<br>
+-05-21 18:41:43  Zorg: as that system sucks<br>
+-05-21 18:41:48  Scott: ok<br>
+-05-21 18:41:54  Scott: anymore points BoD?<br>
+-05-21 18:41:59  Angel: since this is dragging on can i make my point as it is relevant to this particular topic?<br>
+-05-21 18:42:01  Angel: :P<br>
+-05-21 18:42:05  Scott: go for it<br>
+-05-21 18:42:08  Food: How dare you insult PVP *Votes to kill Zorg in his sleep*<br>
+-05-21 18:42:13  Angel: So with the new dual system, how will it work within the wl, do you enter a square and wait for someone to 'accept' Killing somebody offline isn't stupid when they are taking your squares now is it? so why should they get rewarded being offline, it should <br>
+-05-21 18:42:25  Angel: be like an off guard type thing, a premptive strike of sorts<br>
+-05-21 18:42:27  Ross: ...<br>
+-05-21 18:42:34  Tibos: duels are hive only<br>
+-05-21 18:42:37  Ross: why on earth would it apply to the WL?<br>
+-05-21 18:42:39  Pie: ...<br>
+-05-21 18:42:41  Ross: think before you type -_-<br>
+-05-21 18:42:42  Zorg: Ok other people are answering this one for me :D<br>
+-05-21 18:42:46  jonkers: isnt zorg playing with roaming guards?<br>
+-05-21 18:42:50  Scott: yeah<br>
+-05-21 18:42:53  Angel: the game is changing, but what about wl?<br>
+-05-21 18:42:54  Pie: you don't have to accept to fight in the wl<br>
+-05-21 18:42:57  Scott: we're calling them evil little buggers<br>
+-05-21 18:43:01  Pie: you just.. fight..<br>
+-05-21 18:43:04  Pie: and if they're not there<br>
+-05-21 18:43:07  Pie: you get no resistance<br>
+-05-21 18:43:08  Angel: is it remaining the same?<br>
+-05-21 18:43:09  Pascal: you die<br>
+-05-21 18:43:14  jonkers: Care to explain more about these guards?<br>
+-05-21 18:43:16  Zorg: WF is being turned in to one giant AJAX / Javascript display that will incorporate both combat and the current warfare stuff.... you'll never changes pages to fight multiple people in your location / use abilities / etc<br>
+-05-21 18:43:17  KevinMp: so afk = death :O<br>
+-05-21 18:43:19  Scott: WF is being redone next year i would imagine<br>
+-05-21 18:43:22  SlickVic: afk will be suicide<br>
+-05-21 18:43:29  SlickVic: I like it<br>
+-05-21 18:43:34  KevinMp: :P<br>
+-05-21 18:43:39  Zorg: Yeah the idea of guards<br>
+-05-21 18:43:59  Zorg: Is to make them like players only with special unique abilities that wander around<br>
+-05-21 18:44:14  Zorg: So your HQ may be patrolled by a big boss style NPC with cool abilities that takes a few people to kill<br>
+-05-21 18:44:24  Zorg: Your outer borders may be patrolled by simpler NPCs that patrol in packs<br>
+-05-21 18:44:24  KevinMp: so will non avs b able to kill afk avatars then? :O<br>
+-05-21 18:44:27  Scott: Goes well with a radar ability <br>
+-05-21 18:44:28  Scott: :P<br>
+-05-21 18:44:33  jonkers: are you planning changes to the maps?<br>
+-05-21 18:44:35  Scott: anyone afk <br>
+-05-21 18:44:38  Zorg: And enemy territory may even be entered by Scout NPCs that infilitrate and attack unsuspecting players.<br>
+-05-21 18:44:41  Scott: will be pretty much jumped by guards <br>
+-05-21 18:44:44  Scott: if players dont get them<br>
+-05-21 18:44:46  Zorg: Thats the grand scope, how it will actually turn out is unknown right now<br>
+-05-21 18:44:59  Scott: right <br>
+-05-21 18:45:01  Zorg: No changed planned to the maps right now<br>
+-05-21 18:45:04  Zorg: *changes<br>
+-05-21 18:45:08  Angel: but what if the person was not afk, just a slower speed internet?<br>
+-05-21 18:45:18  Zorg: Depends how slow :/<br>
+-05-21 18:45:20  Scott: then we ban dialup XD<br>
+-05-21 18:45:42  Angel: it would give an unfair advantage if self defense is gone<br>
+-05-21 18:45:48  Tibos: once the page is loaded (one page!!!), the other transfers should be extra small<br>
+-05-21 18:45:54  Zorg: The combat system will be automated... kind of, you'll attack every 5 seconds or so and pick abilities in advance. So it's not like click as fast as you can.<br>
+-05-21 18:46:03  bcfcespley: ahh<br>
+-05-21 18:46:12  Angel: that makes more sense<br>
+-05-21 18:46:17  Angel: ok i'm done<br>
+-05-21 18:46:20  Scott: sounds like final fantasy :P<br>
+-05-21 18:46:29  darp: I'm done.<br>
+-05-21 18:46:29  Angel: yeah :P<br>
+-05-21 18:46:32  Scott: ok <br>
+-05-21 18:46:33  Scott: OC <br>
+-05-21 18:46:36  bcfcespley: i prefer killing people in 2 seconds {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:46:37  Scott: last points please<br>
+-05-21 18:46:37  Pascal: souds like pokemon<br>
+-05-21 18:46:38  Food: I'll start.<br>
+-05-21 18:46:39  Zorg: http://dev.legacy-game.net/sandbox/test.htm<br>
+-05-21 18:46:44  Zorg: That's what the blue bar is on that<br>
+-05-21 18:46:50  Food: First off, Bcfc..rank 10 items now please.<br>
+-05-21 18:46:51  Pascal: *sounds<br>
+-05-21 18:46:53  KevinMp: :O<br>
+-05-21 18:46:54  Zorg: The timer that will auto-attack for you... or use abilities you decide on in advance<br>
+-05-21 18:47:04  Food: Seond, we should consider drops from roaming guards in WL!<br>
+-05-21 18:47:23  Zorg: So you click the head shot ability and it is executed at the end of that bar instead of your auto-attack<br>
+-05-21 18:47:39  Angel: that works :)<br>
+-05-21 18:47:42  Zorg: Yes they would have drops, especially each gangs "boss npc" that patrols their HQ<br>
+-05-21 18:48:00  Food: Alright, HD has a few things to adress, HD please.<br>
+-05-21 18:48:07  Scott: HAPPYDAYS<br>
+-05-21 18:48:15  HappyDays: FUNDING <br>
+-05-21 18:48:18  HappyDays: ban it <br>
+-05-21 18:48:37  Zorg: Only well trained Rogues will be anywhere near enemy HQs alone if their boss NPC is alive.<br>
+-05-21 18:48:44  Scott: by funding<br>
+-05-21 18:48:49  Scott: do you mean same ip transfers?<br>
+-05-21 18:48:58  Scott: people quitting and leaving credits?<br>
+-05-21 18:49:01  Zorg: I think he means departure gifts?<br>
+-05-21 18:49:04  HappyDays: As in players getting large tranfers of credits <br>
+-05-21 18:49:10  Scott: but what category<br>
+-05-21 18:49:12  Zorg: Ok guess not<br>
+-05-21 18:49:14  Scott: we can ban everything :s<br>
+-05-21 18:49:17  Scott: cant*<br>
+-05-21 18:49:21  HappyDays: Or pricy items <br>
+-05-21 18:49:28  HappyDays: For examply a free rail gun <br>
+-05-21 18:49:29  Rotten: like medo<br>
+-05-21 18:49:30  jonkers: side question zorg will a gang be able to tell if another gangs boss NPC is alive/dead?<br>
+-05-21 18:49:35  HappyDays: And going away gifts <br>
+-05-21 18:49:41  Risque: What do you consider a large transfer of credits?<br>
+-05-21 18:49:44  HappyDays: Also large insane loans <br>
+-05-21 18:49:46  Scott: problem with away girfts is <br>
+-05-21 18:49:50  Scott: you can say yes ban them<br>
+-05-21 18:49:50  Food: I think we should save this for a good CoE debate, if we discuss funding here all hell will break loose.<br>
+-05-21 18:49:54  Zorg: With glance or wandering around cloaked jonkers<br>
+-05-21 18:49:55  Scott: getting those items is another story<br>
+-05-21 18:49:55  HappyDays: that would take years to pay off should be banned<br>
+-05-21 18:50:08  Scott: Right <br>
+-05-21 18:50:14  Zorg: Although boss npcs may periodically scan their area &gt;:)<br>
+-05-21 18:50:22  Risque: Does OC have the floor or not? O.o<br>
+-05-21 18:50:27  HappyDays: ;/<br>
+-05-21 18:50:27  jonkers: no<br>
+-05-21 18:50:36  bcfcespley: i know yeah<br>
+-05-21 18:50:36  Scott: We're on transfers atm<br>
+-05-21 18:50:42  Scott: its hard to say <br>
+-05-21 18:50:43  Zorg: Yeah HappyDays extreme left wing views can be discussed in the Elders forum<br>
+-05-21 18:50:54  HappyDays: lol thanks zorg {xd}<br>
+-05-21 18:50:56  Scott: thats best <br>
+-05-21 18:50:58  HappyDays: but you love me ;p<br>
+-05-21 18:50:59  Scott: btw zorg <br>
+-05-21 18:51:03  Tibos: when can we submit the elder decision to you?<br>
+-05-21 18:51:03  Zorg: Personally I think all your ideas are insane. &gt;.&lt;<br>
+-05-21 18:51:08  Scott: when elders is redone can we have a clean forum?<br>
+-05-21 18:51:09  HappyDays: my second point coding gang banks <br>
+-05-21 18:51:12  bcfcespley: When will storage be user friendly?!?!<br>
+-05-21 18:51:22  HappyDays: and setting maz amount of spending monthly<br>
+-05-21 18:51:23  Scott: this is legacy bcfc :P<br>
+-05-21 18:51:27  HappyDays: *max<br>
+-05-21 18:51:28  Zorg: It is user friendly to people who dont have a million items.<br>
+-05-21 18:51:32  HappyDays: to create strategy<br>
+-05-21 18:51:35  Scott: lol<br>
+-05-21 18:51:44  Scott: 23:50:53 &#91;Scott&#93; when elders is redone can we have a clean forum?<br>
+-05-21 18:51:45  HappyDays: that way you have to budget <br>
+-05-21 18:51:55  Ross: zorg honours banner for gang loyalty? :D<br>
+-05-21 18:51:58  Scott: Ross<br>
+-05-21 18:51:59  Zorg: sure<br>
+-05-21 18:52:01  HappyDays: and everything is more transparent<br>
+-05-21 18:52:02  bcfcespley: so you created storage intending people to add like 6 items?<br>
+-05-21 18:52:03  Scott: No<br>
+-05-21 18:52:06  Zorg: to clean forum not banner lol<br>
+-05-21 18:52:12  Scott: Ok <br>
+-05-21 18:52:21  Scott: Any last points or can i wrap up ?<br>
+-05-21 18:52:23  Zorg: I'll fix it bcfc, it's just not high on my list of stuff to do<br>
+-05-21 18:52:24  zerocomman: bcfc you are the outlier<br>
+-05-21 18:52:34  Zorg: If you want to move an item 100 places to the left just message me and I'll do it for you lol<br>
+-05-21 18:52:34  Food: Risque, anything to add?<br>
+-05-21 18:52:43  bcfcespley: lol {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:52:47  Risque: We didn't get an answer on the rank 10 items<br>
+-05-21 18:52:49  bcfcespley: yeah 360 clicks for 3 items -_-<br>
+-05-21 18:52:51  Scott: well<br>
+-05-21 18:52:53  Scott: right now <br>
+-05-21 18:52:58  Scott: bcfc i hae a question<br>
+-05-21 18:53:05  Scott: why does one gang have a wf trophie <br>
+-05-21 18:53:08  Scott: and no others do :O<br>
+-05-21 18:53:15  Food: Yeah, WHY bcfc.<br>
+-05-21 18:53:17  Zorg: yeah i dont get that accessory item<br>
+-05-21 18:53:18  Tibos: DF &gt; others? {xd}<br>
+-05-21 18:53:19  Food: Hater<br>
+-05-21 18:53:23  bcfcespley: no<br>
+-05-21 18:53:28  Scott: I want to remove it :P<br>
+-05-21 18:53:34  bcfcespley: its because i felt like DF deserved it...<br>
+-05-21 18:53:40  Tibos: &lt;3<br>
+-05-21 18:53:40  Zorg: If you touch anything in graphics Scott I'll slap you :P<br>
+-05-21 18:53:40  bcfcespley: and to prove im not biased :P<br>
+-05-21 18:53:40  Scott: eh<br>
+-05-21 18:53:51  Scott: didnt say anything about your design, old man<br>
+-05-21 18:54:03  bcfcespley: if TC win WL like 3 or 4 times, ill add it for them<br>
+-05-21 18:54:04  Zorg: I gave graphics control to Lucas and was like... there now if you ever touch any of it I'll kill you :D<br>
+-05-21 18:54:04  KevinMp: :O burn! xD<br>
+-05-21 18:54:13  Scott: XD<br>
+-05-21 18:54:21  Scott: I use it for uploading staff designs tbh <br>
+-05-21 18:54:21 bcfcespley: *goes and deleted EVERYTHING*<br>
+-05-21 18:54:24  Food: Rank 10 items?<br>
+-05-21 18:54:35  Scott: im sure zorg would go bitchtastic on your ass and account <br>
+-05-21 18:54:39  Zorg: anyway enough rambling<br>
+-05-21 18:54:44  Zorg: OC questions<br>
+-05-21 18:54:47  bcfcespley: Rank 10's..<br>
+-05-21 18:54:53  Scott: bcfc can answer this<br>
+-05-21 18:55:03  bcfcespley: who got back to me? {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:55:03  Scott: mr. graphics admin.<br>
+-05-21 18:55:05  bcfcespley: i know DF did...<br>
+-05-21 18:55:19  Scott: bcfc<br>
+-05-21 18:55:23  Scott: relaunch in main <br>
+-05-21 18:55:26  Angel: you could make more character designs for specific gang roles<br>
+-05-21 18:55:27  Scott: best option :)<br>
+-05-21 18:55:38  bcfcespley: i prefer making items atm to be honest =&#93;<br>
+-05-21 18:55:40  Food: We've been waiting for rank 10 and 18 items for a long time, just curious on how these are coming?<br>
+-05-21 18:55:46  Angel: War Advisor could have a specific rank 14 look only available to them<br>
+-05-21 18:55:48  Scott: well<br>
+-05-21 18:55:50  bcfcespley: oh yeah rank 18's too<br>
+-05-21 18:55:54  KevinMp: :O zorg i have a quick question to ask before we go. it can wait though<br>
+-05-21 18:56:04  Scott: shoot it now kevin before i wrap up<br>
+-05-21 18:56:10  Scott: ...sounds oddly wrong<br>
+-05-21 18:56:14  Tibos: i don't see how rank 10 items can be a good idea....<br>
+-05-21 18:56:19  KevinMp: back to the boss npcs. who gets the drop if multiple people attack it?<br>
+-05-21 18:56:30  Tibos: it would only support mass favoring so the gang can benefit from them<br>
+-05-21 18:56:30  Zorg: no idea<br>
+-05-21 18:56:36  Angel: so that people of leadership look like leadership if they choose to be<br>
+-05-21 18:56:36  Food: I have another thing to add if I may.<br>
+-05-21 18:56:40  Risque: Stop beating around the bush on the rank 10/18 items. We still dont' have an answer O.o<br>
+-05-21 18:56:41  KevinMp: still in development then? :O<br>
+-05-21 18:56:42  Zorg: that's all just concept ideas, it is in no way designed yet<br>
+-05-21 18:56:48  KevinMp: ok gotcha ty<br>
+-05-21 18:56:51  Scott: im guessing we have a wow vote system :P<br>
+-05-21 18:56:53  Scott: right<br>
+-05-21 18:57:01  bcfcespley: the answer is, i cant add one gangs, so until all 4 get back to me, no one gets anything :/<br>
+-05-21 18:57:05  Scott: I'll wrap this up :D <br>
+-05-21 18:57:40  Scott: Thank you for attending another successfull LegCon, I'd liek to thank gangs for being able to get the reps in a short amount of time and for staff help with this session. <br>
+-05-21 18:57:50  Zorg: Ok I'll get some changes done tomorrow, to Elders and such<br>
+-05-21 18:57:55  Scott: I'll post the review tomorrow but i'll get to work on elders tonight<br>
+-05-21 18:57:59  Pie: it's tomorrow in 2 minutes.<br>
+-05-21 18:58:07  HappyDays: I am going to make some threads in elders<br>
+-05-21 18:58:07  Scott: XD anyway <br>
+-05-21 18:58:09  Pie: be quick, Scott<br>
+-05-21 18:58:10  HappyDays: strolls off <br>
+-05-21 18:58:12  HappyDays: :p<br>
+-05-21 18:58:13  KevinMp: ok im out then. have a good one<br>
+-05-21 18:58:20  Scott: Zorg will remove your green status soon<br>
+-05-21 18:58:22  KevinMp: gl with all the new updates zorgy :O<br>
+-05-21 18:58:25  Zorg: Special thanks to Lucas for attending -_-<br>
+-05-21 18:58:27  Scott: Thank you again!<br>
+-05-21 18:58:30  Food: I still have one point, Gang chat continues to be an Issue.<br>
+-05-21 18:58:31  bcfcespley: {XD}<br>
+-05-21 18:58:33  Pie: Thanks Lucas<br>
+-05-21 18:58:34  HappyDays: sips beer <br>
+-05-21 18:58:35  Scott: LegCon OVER!<br>
+<span class="boxtitle">Finish: 2010-05-21 18:58:35</span><br>
 |}
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 [[Category: LegCon]]

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Latest revision as of 14:31, 23 March 2011